Capt. Al Haynes sorta OT.

Margy Natalie wrote:

A friend of mine from high school retired from the Navy at 38! He pulls a
decent pension and last I heard had a great civilian job at the Pentagon. Don't
most folks get a pension after 32 years at the same job?

Not in corporate America. Typical minimum retirement age is 55. Of course, many
companies will cut a deal and "give" you advance years if they really want you to
leave.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Margy Natalie wrote:

A friend of mine from high school retired from the Navy at 38! He pulls a
decent pension and last I heard had a great civilian job at the Pentagon. Don't
most folks get a pension after 32 years at the same job?


Not in corporate America. Typical minimum retirement age is 55. Of course, many
companies will cut a deal and "give" you advance years if they really want you to
leave.

Which equates to about 32 years of service for most people. 55 - 32 =
23. Most graduates with a BS/BA degree are 21 or 22 years old. Add a
masters and they are 22 or 23 which is equates to 32 or 33 years of
service by age 55. Add in the early retirement incentives and it is
easy to retire with 31 or 32 years of service.


Matt

Richard Hertz wrote:
Most teachers I know are out the door long before then.

Also, most other salaried professionals work longer hours than teachers for
no extra pay either, so the gripes about extra take-home work falls on
uncaring ears.

The bottom line is - there are plenty of qualified people lined up to take
the teaching jobs at the current salary levels. Even when unemployment is
at historic lows this is the case.

Really? In my area it is very hard to find math and science teachers.


I oppose all those government gravy pensions. (Military/combat service
excluded)

One other big problem is the non-meritocracy of government/school systems.
Pay is based on years of service and so-called education credits. In the
"real" world pay is based on performance, merit, etc.

Yes, that is my biggest beef with the teaching system at present. And
the fact that it is unionized. I don't believe that "professional" and
"union" go together, but then many pilots are union also...

Matt

Margy Natalie wrote in message ...
Yeah, teachers only work 195 days a year (but they are only paid for 195 days a
year). Work 7 hours???!!?!?! For the past 3 years my New Year's Resolution
was to leave school before 6PM (I get there at 7:30), I usually stuck with it
until almost late January :-). The retirement is usually decent if you stick
with it for 30 or 35 years as opposed to the federal government or military
where you get a good pension at 20.

Margy



Can you share with all of use out in the Internet world your views of
tenure. In the REAL world most of us are judged on performance. As a
contractor, machinist and all the other things I do I get paid for
doing the job right, not because I went through a probationary period
and during that time, laid low, crossed all my T's and dotted my I's
and was awarded a lifetime of " get out of jail free" clause in my
contract. Your answer is awaited.

Ben Haas N801BH.
Richard Hertz wrote:

Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only 7
hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax payers.

"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:59:54 GMT, "Matthew S. Whiting"
wrote:

wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:


Capt. Haynes is a retired airline captain, and a sought-after speaker
on the
mashed-potato circuit. As such he should set for life, and pretty
much
rolling in money.


There are some retired TWA pilots that need to work to make ends meet.
There
are some recently retired pilots from "reorganized" carriers who have
lost a
good portion of their retirement.

That is truly infortunate, but I have a hard time feeling too sorry for
folks that made well over $100K/year and didn't sock away a little on
their own for retirement. I make less than most senior airline pilots
and I'm not planning on having SS be available when I retire nor my
company pension. If one or both are still there, that will be gravey.


Then, there's those overpaid school teachers in California who retire
at 100%,
get COLA increases from a bankrupt state, and who are rolling in
dough.~

I'm not familiar with CA (thankfully!), but in most states teachers make
a LOT less than airline pilots.

And put up with mounds more bull**** for about 10 hours a day and at
least 20 days out of the month.

Jay Honeck wrote:

I'll try to refrain from commenting on the kind of attitude that makes
one think this move, which is very widespread in private industry, is
some kind of "gubmint accounting."


Well, maybe this kind of "voodoo economics" is widespread in big business,
too -- but big mega-firms continue to represent a smaller and smaller
percentage of American jobs. I can assure you that this kind numbers game
is NOT prevalent in the small to mid-sized businesses I'm used to dealing
with.

As far as my "attitude" indicating anything, I guess it's because I've spent
my lifetime paying, and paying, and paying taxes, yet all I see is the
economic waste and fraud that means we "need to raise taxes" again. Thus, I
equate bad business practices with Big Gubmint LONG before I equate it with
Big Business.

Why? Well, other than this past year (when I actually received a check from
my Federal Gubmint,thanks to GW), I've never received one damned nickel for
my troubles. Yet my Federal, State and Local taxes have continued to spiral
upward each and every year. Given that kind of performance, it's pretty
hard to NOT be cynical about our government.

Meanwhile, Big Business can screw the accounting pooch all they want, as far
as I'm concerned. At least they actually provide me with goods and
services I want and need,

Ummm, who paid for all those airports and ATC facilities you and your
customers use? Without those federally funded airports would you even
have a business?

Are your kids all in private school, and will they all get educations at
private universities?

Do you drive on any roads?

so many people talk about paying and paying and getting nothing back.
Unless they are living in a cabin in Montana off the grid, they are
getting something. They are just in denial because they don't like
paying for government.

Richard Hertz wrote:

Most teachers I know are out the door long before then.

Also, most other salaried professionals work longer hours than teachers for
no extra pay either, so the gripes about extra take-home work falls on
uncaring ears.

The point is that there are a lot of bitter conservatives who seems to
thikn that teachers have some kind of sweetheart deal, and they often
cite "170 days a week, 6 hours a day." Margy's point is that teachers
work OT and extra time just like everyone else, and their deal is not as
sweet as some would portray it.

I oppose all those government gravy pensions. (Military/combat service
excluded)

Government pensions are good because government work pays less. The
good pensions are the compensation for working for less.

My company used to be like that too -- we were paid below market rates
but the generous pension was held out as an incentive. It's no
different -- well it is because over the last five years the company has
gutted the pension plan but you get the idea.


One other big problem is the non-meritocracy of government/school systems.
Pay is based on years of service and so-called education credits. In the
"real" world pay is based on performance, merit, etc.

uh-oh, better call the airlines.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:12:01 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote:

I don't think that is true, but the statistic I know is true states that most
teachers leave teaching in the first 5 years. The reason? The pay isn't worth
the headaches, time, etc.

There's more than just salary levels behind the paucity of good
teachers.

I'm personally acquainted with one teacher who quit after one year.
The reason? The school board stood behind a pair of wealthy parents
who wanted their daughter to get away with cheating on his final test.
When he refused his "contract was not renewed."

Rob

"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote in message
...

they often cite "170 days a week..."

Damn, I thought I did a lot of overtime.

Paul

Paul Sengupta wrote:

"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote in message
...


they often cite "170 days a week..."


Damn, I thought I did a lot of overtime.


YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT !!

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
Richard Hertz wrote:

Most teachers I know are out the door long before then.

Also, most other salaried professionals work longer hours than
teachers for
no extra pay either, so the gripes about extra take-home work falls on
uncaring ears.


The point is that there are a lot of bitter conservatives who seems to
thikn that teachers have some kind of sweetheart deal, and they often
cite "170 days a week, 6 hours a day." Margy's point is that teachers
work OT and extra time just like everyone else, and their deal is not as
sweet as some would portray it.

That's a dumb statement. I am quite conservative (NRA Life member no
less), am I am one of the folks defending teachers here ... except for
the union/tenure aspect. I don't agree with that.


Matt