This is killing me!!!

So here we have a situation where (1) the server
isn't adequately paid by the employer, and (2) is
being overcharged in income tax. And you don't
see anything wrong with this setup?!?!

See my post, above. A good wait person can make HUGE money, far above what
most assembly line workers can earn.

And assuming a 15% tip isn't excessive nowadays. Around here, 15% is the
norm for adequate service.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Dan Girellini" wrote in message
...
"Morgans" writes:

I like it when you get to vote on the service you get, with your wallet.
It
makes me feel better, when the service is poor. When the service stinks
where there is no tipping, you live with it, and you leave. Period.

And you don't go back. That's voting with your wallet too.

d.

Hardly practical, when you are passing through a city, likely, never to
return again.
--
Jim in NC

"Jeff Shirton" wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

And that's the *problem*.

This all boils down to a "cultural thing".

Close.

It boils down to, "we do it because that's the way it's always been done",
which to me isn't a good reason.

I like it when you get to vote on the service you get, with your wallet.

So when was the last time you "voted" by tipping the grocery store
cashier, or the server behind the "Taco Bell" counter, or the Walmart
stock boy?

I see your mind is firmly made up, but the guy behind a fast food counter,
or the stockboy at the supermarket does not have any lasting impact on how I
spend the hour (or more) that I am totally dependent on the waiter.

I quit. The last word is yours.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

So when was the last time you "voted" by tipping the grocery store
cashier, or the server behind the "Taco Bell" counter, or the Walmart
stock boy?

I see your mind is firmly made up,

Not at all.
But it's sad to see that the people in this thread who are unable
to accept that other people disagree with them have to resort
to name-calling, rather than offering a valid argument.

but the guy behind a fast food counter, or the stockboy at the
supermarket does not have any lasting impact on how I
spend the hour (or more) that I am totally dependent on the waiter.

I've never been "totally dependent on the waiter" at a restaurant
when I have been fine dining.

I still fail to see why you (and others) single out one particular
service occupation to "tip", to the exclusion of all others. This
reeks of special pleading to me. It seems to me that there is no
basis for it, other than, "but that's the way we've always done it".

I certainly have an open mind, but until I see a compelling reason
to change it, I don't see any reason to do so. And the only responses
I've seen so far a

- "because that's how we've always done it!"
- "it's the culture!"
- "you're ignorant!!!!"
- "you're closed-minded!!!"

None of these seem like valid reasons to me.

Jim in NC

--
Jeff Shirton jshirton at cogeco dot ca

The winner of the game is the player
who makes the next-to-last mistake. - Tartakover
Challenge me (Theophilus) for a game of chess at Chessworld.net!

"Jeff Shirton" wrote in message
...
Either that, or you are ignorant to the facts I just outlined.

sigh
What arrogance!

So no one's allowed to disagree with you, anyone
who disagrees with you is "ignorant", because you
are always right, and anyone who disagrees with you
is "therefore" wrong? You are the supreme authority,
you are the centre of the universe? Is that it?

Why don't you try opening your mind to the fact that
you might not know everything, and that you might
just be wrong once in a while?

Whoa there! I'm far from the center of the universe. I was just offering a
point of view. You offered yours. There is no right or wrong here.

About the "ignorant" part, I was truly talking in the general sense. I
didn't mean you personally, no offense meant.

Supreme authority has a nice ring to it though.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

Jeff Shirton wrote:

How does the IRS know your occupation?

You are required to state your occupation on your return.

George Patterson
He who marries for money earns every penny of it.

"Jeff Shirton" wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

And here's another good argument against tipping.
Tipping is income "under the table", and avoids
income tax.

Bull. The IRS assumes tips of 15%.

How does the IRS know your occupation?
(Or are you saying that it "assumes" that all occupations
receive 15% tips?)

Because the restaurant has to report income to the IRS with withholding
information for the pay stub.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Jeff Shirton" wrote in message
news
"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

And here's another good argument against tipping.
Tipping is income "under the table", and avoids
income tax.

Better for the employer to pay it, and everything
be above board. More honest that way, and no
problems with defrauding the government.


No statement for or against tipping and I don't deny that all of tips aren't
reported but a significant percentage is.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:4GBLd.40582$EG1.32583@attbi_s53...
$5.15 /hour. A typical dinner out for my wife and I costs about $50.00.
If
the server does a good job I tip him $10.00. If he waits on no other
tables
during that hour he makes $15.15. If he has other tables then who knows
what he makes. That includes the U. S. government for tax purposes.

$15.15 per hour for an entry-level job is fabulous. Our house-keepers
make
$7.75 to start. Our desk staff earns $8.00.

Now let's assume that this waiter works another few tables at the same
time.
Suddenly he's making more per hour than a UAW line-worker in Detroit.

Of course, arguably he's doing a much harder job, but that's another
topic.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



Thank you Jay, it appears you and I have the same take on this. For the
previous poster that said he knows of restaurants that charges waiters to
work for them, well, that's just nuts. (Hey, maybe if I pay the Dallas
Cowboys enough they will let me fly them in their jet).

Allen

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:4GBLd.40582$EG1.32583@attbi_s53...
$5.15 /hour. A typical dinner out for my wife and I costs about $50.00.
If
the server does a good job I tip him $10.00. If he waits on no other
tables
during that hour he makes $15.15. If he has other tables then who knows
what he makes. That includes the U. S. government for tax purposes.

$15.15 per hour for an entry-level job is fabulous. Our house-keepers
make $7.75 to start. Our desk staff earns $8.00.

Now let's assume that this waiter works another few tables at the same
time. Suddenly he's making more per hour than a UAW line-worker in
Detroit.


He or She would need more than just a few tables to equal UAW wages.

Which might explain much in terms of the history of the US auto industry.
But that is a rant for another time and place. (Caveat: I approach this
subject from the POV of someone who grew up in a "white collar" GM family.)


Of course, arguably he's doing a much harder job, but that's another
topic.


To whom are you refering? The waiter or the UAW worker? I'd say the waiter
is working much, much harder.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ