Bonanza crash caught on video

On Sep 2, 6:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
cjcampbell wrote:
On Aug 31, 6:44 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was at Cameron Park
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "Cameron Park Plane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.

Yes, but as others said, he did manage to struggle into the air. He
never got out of ground effect. He saw the trees coming and tried to
pull it up and stalled. Probably over weight. The airport security
fence finished the job when he hit it and the plane flipped over. Ten
knots lower stall speed, no fence, no tailwind, cooler temperature, no
trees, less load: any one of those factors would have broken the chain
of events leading to the crash.

Maybe, maybe not. You have no idea what caused the crash so saying that
you know the solution is simply dumb.

Matt

Frankly, most of us are not quite as ignorant as you seem to think we
are.

The NTSB preliminary is out:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X01354&key=1

On Aug 31, 6:44 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was atCameronPark
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "CameronParkPlane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

M wrote:
The NTSB preliminary is out:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X01354&key=1

So, given the 271 lbs of baggage and at least 360 lbs of fuel, what does
this leave for the 4 passengers weight-wise?

Wow, 107 degrees. That certainly didn't help.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
M wrote:
The NTSB preliminary is out:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X01354&key=1

So, given the 271 lbs of baggage and at least 360 lbs of fuel, what does
this leave for the 4 passengers weight-wise?

Wow, 107 degrees. That certainly didn't help.

Not knowing the exact figures of that particular airplane, it is hard to
tell, but I found a figure of 1063 pounds useful load at
http://www.raytheonaircraft.com/beechcraft/aircraft/pistons/bonanzag36/specifications.aspx

1063-360-271 leaves 432 pounds for 4 people. 4 people at 170 pounds should
weigh 680 pounds. 432-680= -248 pounds overweight. 3650+248=3898.
3898/3650=1.0679 of the recommended maximum takeoff weight.

Is that a substantial amount overweight? It would seem like it, to me.
Especially at a temperature of 107 degrees.

How about you?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
M wrote:
The NTSB preliminary is out:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X01354&key=1
So, given the 271 lbs of baggage and at least 360 lbs of fuel, what does
this leave for the 4 passengers weight-wise?

Wow, 107 degrees. That certainly didn't help.

Not knowing the exact figures of that particular airplane, it is hard to
tell, but I found a figure of 1063 pounds useful load at
http://www.raytheonaircraft.com/beechcraft/aircraft/pistons/bonanzag36/specifications.aspx

1063-360-271 leaves 432 pounds for 4 people. 4 people at 170 pounds should
weigh 680 pounds. 432-680= -248 pounds overweight. 3650+248=3898.
3898/3650=1.0679 of the recommended maximum takeoff weight.

Is that a substantial amount overweight? It would seem like it, to me.
Especially at a temperature of 107 degrees.

How about you?

Yes, 248 lbs over would be substantial, however, if two of the
passengers were women, there is a chance that the average weight was
less than 170. However, nowadays in America, the odds of being much
less than 170 are slim. And I'm nearly certain they didn't average less
than 432/4! Then again, we need to know for sure what the useful load
was for that particular aircraft.

Matt

Those useful load figures are for the new G36, they're as much
overweight as your new Cessna 206's. 2700 pound empty weight? That's
pathetic. The A36's had a typical empty weight of 1980-2050 so the
useful came in at around 1550. So looks like he was under gross, even
if the Bo was heavier than normal.




Morgans wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

M wrote:

The NTSB preliminary is out:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X01354&key=1

So, given the 271 lbs of baggage and at least 360 lbs of fuel, what does
this leave for the 4 passengers weight-wise?

Wow, 107 degrees. That certainly didn't help.


Not knowing the exact figures of that particular airplane, it is hard to
tell, but I found a figure of 1063 pounds useful load at
http://www.raytheonaircraft.com/beechcraft/aircraft/pistons/bonanzag36/specifications.aspx

1063-360-271 leaves 432 pounds for 4 people. 4 people at 170 pounds should
weigh 680 pounds. 432-680= -248 pounds overweight. 3650+248=3898.
3898/3650=1.0679 of the recommended maximum takeoff weight.

Is that a substantial amount overweight? It would seem like it, to me.
Especially at a temperature of 107 degrees.

How about you?

Not knowing the exact figures of that particular airplane, it is hard to
tell, but I found a figure of 1063 pounds useful load at
http://www.raytheonaircraft.com/beechcraft/aircraft/pistons/bonanzag3...

1063-360-271 leaves 432 pounds for 4 people. 4 people at 170 pounds should
weigh 680 pounds. 432-680= -248 pounds overweight. 3650+248=3898.
3898/3650=1.0679 of the recommended maximum takeoff weight.

Is that a substantial amount overweight? It would seem like it, to me.
Especially at a temperature of 107 degrees.

How about you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I ran the numbers through this calculator and it doesn't look like he
was over-gross:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/a36bonanzawbcalc.html

The density altitude was 4592 feet, which would have had some impact
on climb performance, but he still should have been able to climb at a
decent rate. I wonder if the prop control was set correctly for take-
off?

The fire department can opine all they want; there is no way in hell that
the temperature was 107 except on a black piece of metal aimed directly at
the sun.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"M" wrote in message
oups.com...

The NTSB preliminary is out:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X01354&key=1

On Aug 31, 6:44 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was atCameronPark
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "CameronParkPlane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

RST Engineering wrote:
The fire department can opine all they want; there is no way in hell that
the temperature was 107 except on a black piece of metal aimed directly at
the sun.

Even above a paved runway? The temps at an airport, especially large
ones (I realize this isn't a large one) are often well above ambient
elsewhere. Concrete and asphalt are great sun collectors.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Even above a paved runway? The temps at an airport, especially large
ones (I realize this isn't a large one) are often well above ambient
elsewhere. Concrete and asphalt are great sun collectors.


I think that could make the difference. According to the report, the fire
dept. measured the temperature at the site. Temps issued for weather reports
are taken in the shade under somewhat controlled conditions. They can differ
substantially from the absolute temperature measured on a hot ramp in the sun.


When the tower is reporting 110 degrees here in Phoenix, it's not unusually
for the plane mounted temperature probe (out in the sun, several feet off the
shimmering asphalt) to report temps in excess of 125 degrees.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
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