How much longer?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:lMLKj.58041$TT4.8149@attbi_s22:

Finally, the radiator just failed completely, as steam shot at high
pressure from whatever new orifices were being created.

Uh oh -- thread creep. Good story, though.

Back during the LAST "energy crisis" in the 1970s, solar collectors
sprouted on rooftops like daisies. Everyone wanted to harness all
that "free" energy.

What we soon discovered, however, is that it was far from free. The
thermal stress on all that black plastic soon reduced the collectors
to cracked and leaky junk -- and it was all ABOVE YOUR HOUSE so that
the leaks did the most harm to your home. Within just a few years,
they were gone from the rooftops, and lots of contractors had
prospered fleecing lots of "green" home owners.

Now, you say, could these not be made more durable today? You bet
they could, but at a cost that would amaze you. And, no matter what
you make plumbing out of, no matter how much money you spend on it,
there is one truism that every long-term property owner knows to be
true: Eventually, it WILL leak.

One day these problems may be overcome. Until then, the natural gas
furnaces and water heaters will continue to be the most efficient
choices.



you're an idiot.


Bertie

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:uiAKj.57244$TT4.46171@attbi_s22:

An interesting question to ponder: At what price point do the masses
rise up and over-ride the environmentalist rules that currently
restrict the process?

whatever the price is: what will mankind do after that? you're only
moving the finding of a solution to later generations.

So....you're saying we should not look for more oil? Move the pain up
sooner? Leave the oil in the ground and force the collapse to happen
sooner?

I should think we'd be better off to not destroy our world economy.
My parents lived through the Great Depression, and it doesn't sound
like something to aspire to...

God you're a moron.


Bertie

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:%_JKj.57911$TT4.27145@attbi_s22:

Move the pain up sooner? Leave the oil in the ground and force the
collapse to happen sooner?

you'll die without oil?

I don't think you've thought this all the way through, Martin. The
affect on the world economy of $100/barrel oil prices is staggering.
The recent run-up in gas prices alone has thrown the U.S. into a major
(if media-enhanced) recession.

Trillions of dollars that were being spent on, oh, say, *food*, is now
being spent on oil. The economy can't make that up instantly or
fully, translating into terrible hardship for common folks.

An example close to home: Our employees have been hit terribly hard
by the decades-old decision to not develop our domestic oil reserves.
Housekeepers, desk staff, and other entry-level jobs don't pay
exceptionally well in the best of times, and no one has received a
raise to "make up" for the sudden doubling of energy costs.
EVERYTHING -- gasoline, heat, air conditioning, (and, thus, rent,
food, clothes, etc.) -- has gone up in cost dramatically, causing them
extreme hardship. I see and hear about it every day.

Unfortunately, there is no way for me to raise their pay to match,
because no one is willing to pay more for a hotel room during an
economic downturn. As business drops, there is LESS money with which
to pay employees, and the downward spiral can really get wound up
tightly.

And it's only just begun. Thanks to the short-sighted policies of
people who put the well-being of polar bears ahead of people, we
haven't developed our Alaskan oil reserves. Thanks to the
short-sighted policies of people who fear marring the beauty of the
Rocky Mountains (as if we *could*), we have not developed our Colorado
oil reserves. And the Canadian oil shale reserves. And the
off-shore reserves.

The list goes on and on. My father was in the energy business his
whole life, and predicted this exact scenario almost 40 years ago.
He called it the "environmentalist's energy crisis", and -- although
he predicted the collapse for the year 2000 -- he was only off by a
decade or so.

You may wish to ponder this, Martin. You're well protected from a
backlash, sitting in Austria, but at some point people around the
world -- stupid, slow, and easily kept in the dark for short periods
-- are going to wake up to the fact that their economic hard times are
due to people who think like *you*.


Good grief.


Bertie

On 2008-04-08, Martin Hotze wrote:
is oil all you can think of? Su we can't make it _competletely_
without oil for the next time, but all you can think of is finding more
oil. You completely put away with any alternatives.

Alternatives are impractical until there's a complete, comprehensive
distribution infrastructure in place. That'll take 20 years. There's also a
significant chicken-and-egg problem.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

In article ,
Dan Luke wrote:

I waited 6 years for a T-hangar at 4R4. Now there are vacancies.

I'm still amazed that people are paying $100 every two years to
be on the T-hangar waiting list for KBED. Rates are 25% higher
than when I left in Sept 2006.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On Apr 8, 7:59*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Move the pain up sooner? *Leave the oil in the ground and force the
collapse to happen sooner?

you'll die without oil?

I don't think you've thought this all the way through, Martin. *The affect
on the world economy of $100/barrel oil prices is staggering. * The recent
run-up in gas prices alone has thrown the U.S. into a major (if
media-enhanced) recession.

Trillions of dollars that were being spent on, oh, say, *food*, is now being
spent on oil. *The economy can't make that up instantly or fully,
translating into terrible hardship for common folks.

An example close to home: *Our employees have been hit terribly hard by the
decades-old decision to not develop our domestic oil reserves.
Housekeepers, desk staff, and other entry-level jobs don't pay exceptionally
well in the best of times, and no one has received a raise to "make up" for
the sudden doubling of energy costs. * EVERYTHING -- gasoline, heat, air
conditioning, (and, thus, rent, food, clothes, etc.) -- has gone up in cost
dramatically, causing them extreme hardship. * I see and hear about it every
day.

Unfortunately, there is no way for me to raise their pay to match, because
no one is willing to pay more for a hotel room during an economic downturn..
As business drops, there is LESS money with which to pay employees, and the
downward spiral can really get wound up tightly.

And it's only just begun. *Thanks to the short-sighted policies of people
who put the well-being of polar bears ahead of people, we haven't developed
our Alaskan oil reserves. *Thanks to the short-sighted policies of people
who fear marring the beauty of the Rocky Mountains (as if we *could*), we
have not developed our Colorado oil reserves. * And the Canadian oil shale
reserves. *And the off-shore reserves.

The list goes on and on. *My father was in the energy business his whole
life, and predicted this exact scenario almost 40 years ago. * He called it
the "environmentalist's energy crisis", and -- although he predicted the
collapse for the year 2000 -- he was only off by a decade or so.

You may wish to ponder this, Martin. *You're well protected from a backlash,
sitting in Austria, but at some point people around the world -- stupid,
slow, and easily kept in the dark for short periods -- are going to wake up
to the fact that their economic hard times are due to people who think like
*you*.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

So I guess the huge increases in demand for oil from China and India
aren't responsible for the high price of oil? It's all because of
environmentalists? What happened to supply and demand?

If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge oil reserves were used to
supply 5% of the U.S. demand, they would last about 12 years. That's
hardly a real solution to the problem. The oil shale in Colorado
would be expensive to extract and refine. It's not going to yield
fuel that is cheaper than what we have today. Same goes for the
Canadian oil sands. They will yield oil, but not cheap oil.

And what about the problem of refining? That's the real bottleneck
on the fuel supply We have far fewer refineries now than we used to.
In 1982 we had 263 refineries in this country with a capacity of 17
million barrels a day. In 2002, we had only 159 refineries with a
capacity of about 17 million barrels a day. Same capacity, but higher
demand. As a result, we import a lot more refined fuel now, and when
one refinery goes down, it has a much larger impact. These were
existing, approved refineries that had regulatory approval that were
shut down. Most of this was due to consolidation in the oil industry,
leaving a total of only five large integrated oil companies. In 1993,
the largest five oil refiners controlled one-third of the U.S. market,
while the largest 10 had 56 percent. By 2005, the largest five
controlled 55 percent of the market, and the largest 10 refiners
dominate the market with over 80 percent market share. Consolidation
leads to a decrease in competition. Competition, according to most
conservatives I know, is supposed to be a good thing. Yet most
conservatives don't seem to be bothered at all by this wave of
consolidation in the oil industry.

I think your desire to blame environmentalists is an
oversimplification of a complicated situation. I think your
description of short-sighted leadership is probably pretty correct,
but not for the reasons you like to believe.

Phil

"Phil J" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 7:59 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
I don't think you've thought this all the way through, Martin. The affect
on the world economy of $100/barrel oil prices is staggering. The recent
run-up in gas prices alone has thrown the U.S. into a major (if
media-enhanced) recession.

Trillions of dollars that were being spent on, oh, say, *food*, is now
being
spent on oil. The economy can't make that up instantly or fully,
translating into terrible hardship for common folks.
snip
You may wish to ponder this, Martin. You're well protected from a
backlash,
sitting in Austria, but at some point people around the world -- stupid,
slow, and easily kept in the dark for short periods -- are going to wake
up
to the fact that their economic hard times are due to people who think
like
*you*.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

So I guess the huge increases in demand for oil from China and India
aren't responsible for the high price of oil? It's all because of
environmentalists? What happened to supply and demand?

If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge oil reserves were used to
supply 5% of the U.S. demand, they would last about 12 years. That's
hardly a real solution to the problem. The oil shale in Colorado
would be expensive to extract and refine. It's not going to yield
fuel that is cheaper than what we have today. Same goes for the
Canadian oil sands. They will yield oil, but not cheap oil.
snip


I think your desire to blame environmentalists is an
oversimplification of a complicated situation. I think your
description of short-sighted leadership is probably pretty correct,
but not for the reasons you like to believe.

Phil


Nicely said.

Happy landings

On Apr 8, 9:00*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Uh oh -- thread creep. *Good story, though.

Back during the LAST "energy crisis" in the 1970s, solar collectors sprouted
on rooftops like daisies. *Everyone wanted to harness all that "free"
energy.

Now, you say, could these not be made more durable today? *You bet they
could, but at a cost that would amaze you. *
One day these problems may be overcome. * Jay Honeck

Jay, Ill try to get things a little more on topic. The airport where I
keep one of my airplanes is run almost entirely on Solar power (There
is a small diesel engine for the well) . Most of the equipment ,
including the batteries, was purchased government surplus and the
system has payed for itself several times over. As an interesting side
note, all the hangars on the field are secondhand . I am 30 minutes
from a major metro area and I pay a buck fifty a month for a hangar.
FB

I think your desire to blame environmentalists is an
oversimplification of a complicated situation. I think your
description of short-sighted leadership is probably pretty correct,
but not for the reasons you like to believe.

Of course there are many aspects of the energy problem. They are all,
however, exacerbated by stupid, over-the-top environmental rules that are
abused by folks with a not-so-hidden agenda.

Just TRY to get something as simple as, oh, say, a runway extension
completed, and observe the almost unbelievable quantity of environmental red
tape that must be overcome. Now imagine building an OIL REFINERY. Ain't
gonna happen with the current set of rules.

If I were "King for a day", I would decree the following "4 Steps to
American Energy Independence":

1. New refineries are not being built because draconian environmental rules
prevent them from being constructed. As of now, all environmental
restrictions on oil refinery construction are lifted.

2. New oil is not being pumped because draconian environmental rules prevent
new oil fields from being developed. As of now all environmental
restrictions on development of known oil reserves are lifted.

3. New nuclear power plants are not being built because draconian
environmental rules prevent their construction. As of now all environmental
restrictions on construction of new nuclear plants are lifted.

4. By decree, hydrogen fuel is now the way of the future -- period. From
this point on, by my decree, the scientific and industrial capacity of the
United States will be used to perfect a hydrogen distribution system to
replace our current gasoline distribution system, and all cars will be
powered by hydrogen. Source: http://tinyurl.com/6hklhf

These four steps will, in a matter of a decade, resolve 90% of our problems.
Unfortunately, it will take another Great Depression to shake our system
enough to force a repeal of the environmental restrictions that make
resolving our energy problems impossible.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay, Ill try to get things a little more on topic. The airport where I keep
one of my airplanes is run almost entirely on Solar power (There is a
small diesel engine for
the well)

What parts of the airport are solar powered? Runway lights? Lights in the
FBO? How do they supply heating/air conditioning?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"