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#101
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Full-stall slow flight. That's an interesting term; you really mean
partially stalled, right? Tell you the truth I don't know how much of the airflow had separated from the wing, but I was pulling up as hard as I could on the yoke, and the airplane was shuddering and struggling to stay aloft (and sinking). The nose was bobbing, so it's as full as I could get, steady state. Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#102
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Flaps on take-off and landing
"Mxsmanic" ... wrote in message ... In simulation it seems that flying slow with flaps extended makes the aircraft more prone to exaggerated movement for a specific control input, especially in larger aircraft. Is an aircraft inherently less stable at slow speeds with flaps extended? If so, is it just because the flaps are out, or is it the slow speed that does it? Hm... Slow flight is accompanied by soft-feeling controls and less control authority (i.e. you have to put in more input to get the aircraft to respond, not less). By the same token, you have to put in more control to stop the plane from rolling (or whatever) once started, so that might be what is giving you that impression. Dunno. When flying around a city for fun at low altitudes (2000-3000 feet), I often fly with full flaps and throttles near idle. It makes it easier to go slow and enjoy the view, but I also get the impression that the envelope of safe maneuvering is smaller in this configuration. But I don't know if it's the flaps that do that, or the slow speed, or perhaps both. I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'envelope of safe maneuvering.' You can't go as fast with flaps extended, because something might break, but you can fly slower, because of the additional lift. When I first tried simulation (many years ago now), I was surprised by the drag effect of flaps. I had read about it but I didn't realize it was so significant. I finally understood why I had heard commercial pilots increasing engine speed while approaching a runway on landing. I find myself doing the same thing, to maintain altitude mainly, and also because it seems to improve flight characteristics if one flies with more power (?), as opposed to just gliding in at the slowest possible speed. I'll have to take your word for it -- I've never flown a big airplane, real or simulated. In smaller airplanes where the propwash flows over the control surfaces, your elevator and rudder are more responsive at higher RPMs. Tom Young |
#103
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Flaps on take-off and landing
The application of the rule has required a positive detent
to limit the flap position. "Roy Smith" wrote in message ... | In article SwnOg.22694$SZ3.9372@dukeread04, | "Jim Macklin" wrote: | | Every airplane with flaps has speed limits with flaps | extended. If there is a positive stop, they may have a | series of allowable speeds. | | Why do you say "positive stop"? I think you're talking about: | | 23.1511 Flap extended speed. | | (a) The flap extended speed VFE must be established so that it is | | (1) Not less than the minimum value of VF allowed in 23.345(b); and | | (2) Not more than VF established under 23.345(a), (c), and (d). | | (b) Additional combinations of flap setting, airspeed, and engine power | may be established if the structure has been proven for the corresponding | design conditions. | | I don't see anything there that mandates a "positive stop". |
#104
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Margy Natalie writes: Who said the handle is small? Some of these "handles" are 2 - 3 feet long. Where are they in the cockpit? I haven't seen many small cockpits; is there a picture on the Net of one that has this kind of lever? It sounds like it would be awkward to use in flight. I go by what I've seen in the handful of pictures of cockpits that I've encountered. Most of these are of jet aircraft, and the flap lever is longer than most but hardly long enough to provide much leverage. In the StingSport LSA it's right where you would expect to find your Toyota parking brake handle... in fact, it looks suspiciously like a Toyota parking brake handle... grin -- -- ET :-) "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."---- Douglas Adams |
#105
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Nope.
As long as you are flying in the green arc, the wing alone will ALWAYS give you better lift. Karl "Curator" N185KG screw bottom feeders "Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:2njOg.22663$SZ3.21477@dukeread04... Flap extension does cause an immediate (manual flaps) increase in lift, rotating the aircraft also increases lift but the flaps seem to work better in the case of just "jumping" a few feet because they also lower the stall speed giving a slightly greater margin at the same energy level. |
#106
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Try it. It is not a long term effect, just a quick change
to get over the short fence or narrow ditch. "karl gruber" wrote in message ... | Nope. | | As long as you are flying in the green arc, the wing alone will ALWAYS give | you better lift. | | | Karl | "Curator" N185KG | screw bottom feeders | | | "Jim Macklin" wrote in message | news:2njOg.22663$SZ3.21477@dukeread04... | Flap extension does cause an immediate (manual flaps) | increase in lift, rotating the aircraft also increases lift | but the flaps seem to work better in the case of just | "jumping" a few feet because they also lower the stall speed | giving a slightly greater margin at the same energy level. | | | |
#107
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic wrote:
I don't know if such devices are available for commodity simulators like MSFS; there is no fundamental technical obstacle to employing them, and perhaps someone out there is building them. Head tracking equipment for the PC that works in MSFS and many other programs do exist. With out it flight simulators are extremely boring to me. You really need to look into them, they increase the level of realism by an order of magnitude. The one I have is called TrackIR. I'm sure there are others out there, but I don't know what they are. The TrackIR works by using an inferred camera that you put over your monitor and point it at your head. The low end version that I use comes with a set of silver stickers that the inferred camera picks up really well and tracks. You just stick them on a hat and go. Then it exaggerates your head movements in the game, so say 10 degrees of movement of your real head translates to 120 degrees of movement for the game head. The first 3 or 4 times you use it, you will probably get a head ache, but after you get used to it, the head aches stop. By the way, the 10 to 120 degree numbers were just made up, the real ratio is configurable with a little utility that shows your head on one side and the game head on the other side so you can see what how much it moves. They have a higher end version that not only tracks which way your head is pointing but it also tracks movement from side to side, forward and backward up and down and side to side tilt (think roll here). The basic version just does pitch and yaw, which does work well. A friend has the more advanced version and tells me he has to turn off the roll feature because it becomes to disorienting while flying, but he does like using the full functionality in the Nascar simulator. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com |
#108
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Flaps on take-off and landing
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... Are you aware that you are discussing this with one of the programmers who wrote MS Flight Simulator? Oh, who? The original version or one of the more recent ones? I remember somewhere around v1 there was this "feature" that if you went inverted and "dove" towards the sky, you had a *very* good climb rate and speed... Great "feature" during the dogfight scenario since you could thereby climb considerably faster than all the other aircraft that were trying to shoot you down... |
#109
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Flaps on take-off and landing
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... In those situations, you can descend by flying slowly (slower than Vx) on the other side of the knee in the curve, but you must remain above stall speed. Kind of depends upon the aircraft, doesn't it? Some aircraft stall so benignly that you could probably just descend vertically in the stall and then recover at some point before you become one with the ground... grin I seem to remember a 150 or 152 at one time that when I was flying it solo and practicing stalls, even with full back yoke and throttle at idle, I couldn't get a noticeable break... Yeah, the descent rate increased, but it was very stable in the descent... After awhile, I got bored and just told myself, "yeah, I guess we can call that a stall"... |
#110
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Flaps on take-off and landing
"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
... Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't fly. Maybe in *your* plane, but *my* plane only gets a 2-3 kt decrease in stall speed... Not worth the trouble unless you need to drop into a really short field with trees or a power line at the approach end of it... |
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