How to land on a grass airstrip

Dave Stadt wrote:
During my training neither I nor the CFIs were allowed to land on turf.
Soon as I passed the check ride I could rent from the same FBO and land
anywhere I wanted without additional training but the CFIs were still under
the no turf rule. First flight after the checkride I headed for a turf
strip and haven't looked back since. I suspect those CFIs would be the
last people someone seeking guidance on turf landings would want to talk to.
For those seeking a CFIs advice be very, very careful in choosing
the CFI and make sure they have experience in the area you are seeking
advice.

Matt Whiting wrote:
That seems like a truly bizarre rule. Was this insurance related,
perhaps? I can't see any sane FBO having these sort of rules voluntarily.

The Ohio State University Flight School (Part 141) has such a rule. Yes,
it is insurance related.
The flying club I am in has an insurance stipulation about landing at
unimproved airfields. The local interpretion is that if it is on the
sectional, it is an improved airfield.

In article X0%kg.49056$ZW3.38990@dukeread04,
"Jim Macklin" wrote:

Grass can be long, short and even cut grass is a possible
problem since it can be trapped inside of wheel pants.

Watched a friend's RV-6 head for the corn and go tail up after the left
wheel pant filled with cut grass and grab the wheel. Be very carefull if
you have tight fitting wheel pants and operate of a freshly cut grass
strip where the grass was long before cutting.
The incident required a year to rebuild the aircraft. New wood prop,
engine teardown and rebuild, rebuild the lower cowl, new wheel pant.

"Dave Stadt" wrote:
Around here the FBOs that rent taildraggers only allow operation on grass.
Grass causes no additional wear and tear and in fact is easier on tires. We
are talking about turf runways not dirt.

We were talking about the rule at flight schools/FBOs prohibiting
landing rental aircraft on "unimproved" strips -- that encompasses
grass/turf and/or dirt and sand, or anything that's *not paved*. I did
not disagree that grass is easier on tires.

As a (fairly) recent private pilot (~125 hrs), I do not have much
experience with non-paved runway surfaces. The advice I have comes from
these points:

1) Have a qualified (ie, one experienced, current, and comfortable with
non-paved surface landings--grass, dirt, gravel, et al) instructor on
board until YOU are comfortable with non-paved surface operations.
2) Treat any non-paved surface as a soft-field operation until you know
otherwise. It may save your pocketbook.
3) A misconception I had was that you performed EITHER a soft-field
landing OR a short-field landing, but not a COMBINATION of the two.
Realize that if you land at an airstrip that is rough, but hard, you may
want to still use soft-field techniques. If it is short, but soft,
combine short- AND soft- field techniques.
4) See point #1. It all comes down to YOU and YOUR experience and
comfort level with non-paved surface operations, no matter what I or
others may say. YOU are pilot-in-command. Kudos to you for trying to
get more information, though.

Chris G, PP-ASEL
Salem, Oregon
flying (at) k7sle *d*o*t* com.

drclive wrote:
Can anybody point out a good bibliography or article that describes the
differences in landing on a grass airstrip for the first time, tips and
advices? Thanks

In article ,
unicate wrote:

"Dave Stadt" wrote:
Around here the FBOs that rent taildraggers only allow operation on grass.
Grass causes no additional wear and tear and in fact is easier on tires.
We
are talking about turf runways not dirt.

We were talking about the rule at flight schools/FBOs prohibiting
landing rental aircraft on "unimproved" strips -- that encompasses
grass/turf and/or dirt and sand, or anything that's *not paved*. I did
not disagree that grass is easier on tires.


The operative word here is "unimproved." Usually, a dedicated grass
runway is an "improved" runway; therefore, it falls outside the
restriction. Improved runways include turf, pavement -- even graded
dirt, for that matter.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
The operative word here is "unimproved." Usually, a dedicated grass
runway is an "improved" runway; therefore, it falls outside the
restriction. Improved runways include turf, pavement -- even graded
dirt, for that matter.

"Improved" at our flight school, and at other flight schools/FBOs at
this municipal airport and two others within a 15 nm radius means PAVED,
period. Grass, turf, graded dirt and any other *non-paved* surface is
considered unimproved ... as verified by FBO/flight school owners
whenever questioned by students/renters as they sign the aircraft rental
agreement. This applies to EVERYONE flying the aircraft - students,
licensed pilots, CFIs, examiners. That's not to say some don't land
elsewhere, but as with any "rule", there will always be some that think
it doesn't apply to them!

unicate wrote in
:

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
The operative word here is "unimproved." Usually, a dedicated grass
runway is an "improved" runway; therefore, it falls outside the
restriction. Improved runways include turf, pavement -- even graded
dirt, for that matter.

"Improved" at our flight school, and at other flight schools/FBOs at
this municipal airport and two others within a 15 nm radius means
PAVED, period. Grass, turf, graded dirt and any other *non-paved*
surface is considered unimproved ... as verified by FBO/flight school
owners whenever questioned by students/renters as they sign the
aircraft rental agreement. This applies to EVERYONE flying the
aircraft - students, licensed pilots, CFIs, examiners. That's not to
say some don't land elsewhere, but as with any "rule", there will
always be some that think it doesn't apply to them!


i doubt that would hold up if the FBO ever tried to sue you or otherwise
enforce it, if they mean PAVED, they should state PAVED...

--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

unicate schrieb:

"Improved" at our flight school, and at other flight schools/FBOs at
this municipal airport and two others within a 15 nm radius means PAVED,
period.

I'm not a native English speaker, so what do I know, but if I had
translated that way in my English tests, I sure would have failed.

Stefan

Matt Whiting wrote:

wrote:
snip


1. The tires spin up more slowling since they can slide along the grass
as they touch down. You don't see the puff of smoke as often is the
case on pavement.

2. Likewise, the reduced friction also allows the tires to sideslip a
little more. So, if you touchdown with less than perfect alignment, you
won't have the sudden veering that will happen on pavement. However,
this is absolutely not an excuse to be sloppy and have less than perfect
longitudinal alignment at touchdown.

Others here might hold a different view on this.


Undoubtedly! :-)


Matt

I really hate to admit this to the group, but I actually departed a dew
covered grass strip with the parking brake on. I have a 180 hp C-172
with C/S prop. I didn't even notice it until I landed at my destination
and tires started squeeling. Boy, did I slap that parking break off in a
hurry. changed tires at annual.

In article ,
Stefan wrote:

unicate schrieb:

"Improved" at our flight school, and at other flight schools/FBOs at
this municipal airport and two others within a 15 nm radius means PAVED,
period.

I'm not a native English speaker, so what do I know, but if I had
translated that way in my English tests, I sure would have failed.

Little know fact... many US barristers get their undergraduate degree in
English before going on to get their JD.