Almost saw someone crash

Reminds me of Francis Chichester running into Australia in one of the BOC
Challenge "Around the World Alone" sailing races. He was asleep below decks
and just ran into Australia. "Damn, who put that there!?"

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Paul Sengupta
wrote:
Time Team (programme on TV here in the UK) had an archeological
dig of a site where two B17s collided in cloud...or rather of where they
ended up in the ground.

A B-17 collided with the Isle of Man during the war. They were cruising
at about 1200' MSL over the Irish Sea, and someone forgot about the big
rock in the middle and they slammed into the side of North Barrule.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Do you know the difference between a A36 and a V35?


Yes. Do you know the difference between a V35 and an ultralight?

Yes, but evidently the website creator doesn't.


Does he?


You'd have to ask him.

Let's see. You quote the PILOT who didn't know what kind of plane he was
flying. I mention a website saying otherwise. Both the PILOT and the WEBSITE
were wrong.

For me it was a curiosity; for you evidently a near-religious experience.

Is your ego that fragile that you have to come back like a grade-schooler,
Steven? You've demonstrated a well versed knowledge in here and I tend have
more respect for you than that.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Let's see. You quote the PILOT who didn't know what kind of plane he
was flying. I mention a website saying otherwise. Both the PILOT and
the WEBSITE were wrong.


You quoted a website that said it was an ultralight. I quoted the pilot who
said it was a Bonanza. Was it an ultralight or was it a Bonanza?



For me it was a curiosity; for you evidently a near-religious experience.


?



Is your ego that fragile that you have to come back like a grade-schooler,
Steven?


No more than you.



You've demonstrated a well versed knowledge in here and I tend have
more respect for you than that.


Are your smart-ass comments supposed to be a sign of respect?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Not at all weighing in on the current thread, but this comment is suitable
for a tagline:

Are your smart-ass comments supposed to be a sign of respect?

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message That's baloney. First of all, from the
description given, there were plenty
of witnesses to make a case, plus there's going to be a record of the
damage
to the plane.

Heresay....
From the description given, the only charge that might stick would be flying
an unairworthy aircraft and performing an improper pre-flight, depending on
the extent of damage the wing actually has. Then again, her legal counsel
could claim it was a bird strike (no matter that the bird was still in a
tree).

Secondly, so what if this particular case isn't the one that
gets her? Unless people are willing to report irresponsible piloting like
that, the FSDO never has a chance to even start building a case.

And, perhaps the pilot likes to pander to the over-reacting personalities
for entertainment. The equivilant in a newsgroup would be a troll. Do we
call the authorities for everyone who trolls this group?

As for her attitude becoming "more cavalier", I can't imagine how it could
be any more cavalier than it already is. Just how much worse could she
possibly get? She's already nearly killed herself, running the plane into
something in flight. Any more cavalier, and she won't be a problem
because she WILL be dead.

An enforcement action will change her ways. NOT!
She will likely continue to fly with a suspended certificate. Doctors and
Bonanzas- 'nuff said.

Face it- You weren't there. You can surmise all you want, but you weren't
there. I'll repeat this again for you-

WE NEVER TAKE OUR PROBLEMS TO THE FAA. THEY HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS OF THEIR
OWN.

D.

"Viperdoc" wrote in message

I would argue the point that an individual who flies VFR in IMC is a
skillful pilot. Most pilots would suggest that flying in IMC and being
lost
in a thunderstorm do not demonstrate good judgment or skill.

She stated that it was so difficult to control the plane that she couldn't
take her hands off the yoke to hit the "nearest" button on her GPS to find
the closest airport. I do not think this demonstrates a high level of
proficiency or judgment.


I repeat, yet again, that I have never suggested this woman displayed good
judgement. You seem to want to mix judgement and skill, implying that
because this woman displayed poor judgement, she was unskilled. To be
objective regarding aviation, you have to learn to recognize the difference
between judgement and skill. The two are necessary and complimentary in a
good aviator, but are in no way inextricably mixed. I have known pilots of
remarkable skill and astoundingly poor judgement. Their poor judgement,
although lamentable, never reduced their ability to smoothly and accurately
place their craft exactly where they wanted it in time and space. I have
also known people of impressive intellectual judgement without the skills to
push a wheelbarrow. (Fortunately, none of the latter were pilots.)


I spoke with our mechanic today- the plane had tree bark and leaves
embedded
in the wingtip and leading edge. This to me would suggest that at some
point
in time she had hit a tree.

Exactly right -- at some point in time she hit some branches.

These are the facts of the post- if you do not believe that these events
brought this individual close to killing herself so be it.

Well, one fact and two opinions. In any event, she may have been close.
Possibly close. Maybe even probably close. But neither you nor I know that
as fact.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
[...]
Face it- You weren't there. You can surmise all you want, but you weren't
there.

It's all we have to go on. We are discussing, if you like, a hypothetical
situation, the details of which have been specifically laid out for us. You
have no more authority to say she should NOT have been turned in than I have
to say that she SHOULD have been.

I'll repeat this again for you-

WE NEVER TAKE OUR PROBLEMS TO THE FAA. THEY HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS OF THEIR
OWN.

Repeat what? Your all-caps shouting is a completely different issue, and I
vehemently disagree with your position. That's exactly the kind of asinine
"protect our own" attitude that I'm talking about.

I'm not proposing that I, a person that wasn't there and knows nothing
first-hand about the incident, turn her in. I'm proposing the person with
first-hand knowledge of what happened turn her in.

A lot of the problems we have as members of the general aviation community
are caused by a few people who screw it up for the rest of us. And as long
as we sit on our hands and protect those idiots, we have only ourselves to
blame.

Pete

Thanks, David. I'll put it in the queue

On Tue, 25 May 2004 13:00:52 GMT, David Megginson
wrote:

Cub Driver wrote:

In THE FOG OF WAR, Robert McNamara talks about

This video has been recommended to me. Is it worth seeing? (I'm not
interested in a Michael Moore screed. I get all that stuff I can stand
on the local cocktail party circuit.)

Yes, THE FOG OF WAR is the kind of documentary that *should* have won a
Palme d'Or. Try to see it in a theatre if you can -- I was trembling when I
walked out, and I'm not easily moved or impressed by documentaries.


All the best,


David

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

A B-17 collided with the Isle of Man during the war.

I wonder how many men died in WWII in collisions by flying into
terrain or buildings?

The most famous one in the U.S. was the B-25 that flew into the Empire
State Building. That would have been the summer of 1945, I think.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

A B-17 collided with the Isle of Man during the war.

I wonder how many men died in WWII in collisions by flying into
terrain or buildings?

The most famous one in the U.S. was the B-25 that flew into the Empire
State Building. That would have been the summer of 1945, I think.


Yup, July 28th.

http://history1900s.about.com/librar...mpirecrash.htm

http://www.cosmik.com/aa-april02/dj82.html (Watch out for Ad pop-ups, but it
is the more in depth article)