Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.

The tighter the formation you fly the tighter the bomb pattern on the ground
and the more damage you do to the enemy.


http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer/stripes.htm





Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article , ArtKramr
writes

The tighter the formation you fly the tighter the bomb pattern on the ground
and the more damage you do to the enemy.


http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer/stripes.htm





Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



For a single pass at the target, that sounds okay - as long as the
formation as a whole is mastered accurately. However, how did the
formation attack compare with say a long string of B17s in trail, each
aiming individually? The formation attack must be all or nothing,
whereas the trail attack must result in a number of well-aimed drops
amongst the average ones.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

Dave Eadsforth wrote:

However, how did the
formation attack compare with say a long string of B17s in trail, each
aiming individually?

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

The formation attack must be all or nothing,
whereas the trail attack must result in a number of well-aimed drops
amongst the average ones.

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in? Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

From: "Pete"
Date: 8/23/2004 9:38 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

If art wanted to experience a real war I would have been glad to oblige by
having him next to me when I was in the Army in Viet Nam. Granted we had a
greater survival rate than the AAF did (before he got there) but he had a bed
to sleep in, hot meals and cold drinks. I don't think he would have lasted even
if he was 18 as I was.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Pete" wrote in message
...

"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little
wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months,
over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

What a hoot! A couple of weeks ago Art was hammering one of his own, and now
he hammers Bufdrvr when he supports his own argument. Then of course he had
to add that tagline of his about "real wars"...where are all of his usual
cast of posterior-embracing buddies now?

Brooks


Pete

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art,
Bufdrvr is confirming, what you stated.!!

BMC

ArtKramr wrote:

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Books, ever heard of them? Oh, I'm sorry that's right, you don't read books
about WW II because you subscribe to the "if you weren't there, you don't know
****" theory. The problem with your theory is that nearly all of the books I've
read have been written from first hand accounts of people who were there.

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains".

I never said you did you ignorant old goof!

What rinky dink air force were you in?

The one from the United States. The one that has come to dominate enemies like
the Air Force of your generation could only dream of.

Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Well, I'm in good company. Kramer's "real wars" exclude everyone outside of the
World War II ETO from 1943-45. North Africa? Not real. Med? Not real. Pacific?
Please...not real. Korea? Not real. Vietnam? Not real. Desert Storm and all the
conflicts since then? Not real. In fact, I'm willing to bet the proud group of
"Kramer's not real warriors" will never stop growing.

I guess once you hit 80+ years of age its too hard to be self retrospective? If
I said half the things Kramer has I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the
mirror to shave.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

I said half the things Kramer has I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the
mirror to shave.



You still can't


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer