Left can't read well nor do they understand Constitution

LawsonE wrote:
" wrote in
message
news:SiGOb.17992
LawsonE wrote:
[...]
How do you know that the individuals accused of being Al
Queda or at
least, accused of being part of terrorist attacks on
Americans, were
indeed the people they thought they were?

In the case of those captured by my units, they were
quite
proud of the fact that they were Al Qaeda (BTW, only
those
suspected of being ranking members or persons having
specific knowledge of terrorist activities or intent were
sent to MCS Guantanamo Bay). Other detainees were turned
over to the interim government of Afghanistan (once it
was
formed) by US Forces for disposition by the Afghan
government.

Fair enough.


Additionally, at least some people detained at Gitmo
were
NOT captured
during fighting of any kind, but along smuggler's routes
that were
being used by Al Queda forces (along with smugglers and,
according to
the Kuwaiti government, a few Kuwaiti nationals trying
to
escape the
Afghan war and return home from visiting relatives).

Do you know this for a fact? Under what circumstances
were
they captured and detained? Be very careful in your
answer, my teams were those in Pakhtia province and there
are a fair number that were captured and detained by
forces
working with them or by members of the teams. Including
several alleged "smugglers" whose fortifications we
breached
and captured along with documents and weapons. Others
were
captured subsequent to Operation Anaconda by members of
US
forces who also claimed to be "smugglers". Smugglers,
armed
with 82mm mortars, RPGs and other weapons who had been
engaged in hostile activity against these US forces.

That may well be the case. Newsweek had a major article
about several
Kuwaiti detainees that the Kuwaitee government was
attempting to get
released to no avail (at the time of the article).

Not to gainsay Newsweek (we all know that they are the
epitome of accuracy) but there were Kuwaitis among some of
our captured, detained and transferred to Guantanamo who
were anything but innocents caught trying to escape the war.
They were in fact undergoing training at one of the
encampments to become terrorists.

I don't know if that is the same group of Kuwaitis but,
there is a great deal of doubt in my mind as to their
innocence. Perhaps the parents and relatives of this group
of Kuwaitis would like us to return their prodigal children
but, depending upon the circumstances of their capture, I
would recommend a long debriefing period of these people
followed by the findings of a tribunal as proposed and
actions thereafter according to those findings.




You're aware that as many as 250 detainees have been
released or are
being processed out in the next month or two after a
year
or more of
detention because the US finally decided that they had
nothing to do
with Taliban or Al Queda but were actually turned in by
rival
factions in Afghanistan in order to collect bounty,
right?

I would say that it is more likely that they are being
released because after extensive debriefings they were
found
not to be leaders or to be as important as they claimed
to
have been. Are you aware of the screening process under
which detainees were sent to MCS Guantanamo Bay?


No, I'm not. Which is, I think, part of the problem.

I don't see any problem here. Other than the fact that as
usual people are shooting off their mouths and expressing
opinions that are not grounded in fact. Don't expect there
to be a lot of coverage of the screening process. Most of
the journalists that came to Iraq (with a very, very few
exceptions) left very quickly because of the dearth of booze
(none) and the fact that there were no PAO personnel to
coddle them. Many of those who came visited Kabul,
Kandahar, Bagram and might have gone up to Mazar-i-Sharif.
Very few came into the hinterland and usually in the company
of some warlord who fed them whatever he wanted them to
hear. So, for the most part you'll hear what Hekmanytar and
Dostum wanted them to say when they report on my old AO.

While it is possible that some of those sent there may
have
been turned in by various warlords from rival factions, I
rather doubt the majority were.


I hope that you are correct. However, the circumstances
under which
at least some were captured aren't very clear, even now.

LOL!!! War has a habit of having a lot of "murkiness" and a
lack of clear cut delineations especially when dealing with
non-state backed hostile forces.

Snark
OEF, Pakhtia Province Nov. 2001-Apr. 2002

Additionally, there are other clauses in the Geneva
Accords IV that
MAY apply to any and all detainees. Certainly, the
clause
that states
that if there is any question as to how a detainee is to
be treated,
they are accorded POW status until a tribunal decides
otherwise. This
was NOT done in the case of several hundred detainees,
who
were
handed over to American armed forces for bounty, without
any proof
that they were who the bounty hunters said they were.

Again, are you aware of the screening process for
detainees
to be shipped to Guantanamo Bay?

No. Are you aware of the screening process for ALL the
detainees? How
do you know?

I do know the general screening process for _all_ the
detainees since the criteria were clearly laid out. After
all, we didn't want to spend the money to transport just
anyone to Guantanamo Bay. Now the specifics of each and
every situation I am not aware of. But, I'm fairly certain
that unless you were with either an MI, a CIA or an SF unit
you don't know a thing about them.

Snark

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Of course they do. They just don't have the power to arrest him.


I suggest you look up the word "arrest".

What would that tellme that I am not already very familiar (though not
as familiar as Colin) with?

Clueless then.

Hardly.

You dispute that there is a difference between the legal term "arrest"
and the vernacular useage of the word?

arrest
to take or hold a suspected criminal with legal authority, as by a
law enforcement officer. An arrest may be made legally based on a
warrant issued by a court after receiving a sworn statement of
probable cause to believe there has been a crime committed by this
person, for an apparent crime committed in the presence of the
arresting officer, or upon probable cause to believe a crime has been
committed by that person. Once the arrest has been made, the officer
must give the arrestee his/her rights ("Miranda rights") at the first
practical moment, and either cite the person to appear in court or
bring him/her in to jail. A person arrested must be brought before a
judge for arraignment in a short time (e.g. within two business days),
and have his/her bail set. A private "security guard" cannot actually
arrest someone except by citizen's arrest, but can hold someone
briefly until a law officer is summoned. A "citizen's arrest" can be
made by any person when a crime has been committed in his/her
presence. However, such self-help arrests can lead to lawsuits for
"false arrest" if proved to be mistaken, unjustified or involving
unnecessary holding.



Ckecked with the JAG officer yesterday as well. I've lead no one
astray.

On 18 Jan 2004 21:26:36 GMT, Clark stillnospam@me wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in
:

On 17 Jan 2004 21:40:35 GMT, Clark stillnospam@me wrote:

"~Nins~" wrote in

Please post the citations for the 'pertinent case law'? I'd like to
take a look at them, they are cases involving military police and
civilians, right?

Wrong, it has to do with what in practice is arrest as determined by the
courts. It doesn't matter who, civilian, military, LE detains the
individual, merely the fact that the have been detained and are under
the control of someone.

So when a psychiatric patient is committed he has been arrested?

I don't know. Is it a civil or criminal matter?

Civil. But he is being detained against his will, which, to some,
constitutes "arrest".

The point being that simply because on is being detained
does not mean that they are "under arrest".

Al Minyard