Another Addition to the Rec.Aviation Rogue's Gallery!

Bow at my feet?!!? I like it!!! Hopefully the Navion will be flying by OSH
(with new radios and everything!!) so we can do something down in the classic
area. If you volunteer for Vintage flight line ops I'll even help you into your
little orange vest!

Margy (stuck on earth, in the snow, wishing it was spring)

AL wrote:

Jay, just tell me how to find your plane at OSH. I'm planning on being there
this year as a visitor instead of an exhibitor so I get to see the show. I,
too, would like to bow to the ground at Margie's feet.

--
Al Mills
Wake me before we take off...

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:16:24 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:54:16 -0600, "VideoGuy" gkasten at brick dot
net wrote:

Err... Sorry Bill, or is it MR. Phillips?

Gary

It's Dr. Phillips, but I don't use that at all. I prefer Badwater
Bill as I have used it here for nearly 10 years. The Dr. bull **** is
for when I lecture at universities or in Europe. They're big on
titles in both of those places.

I can't believe all the new people that must be in here. I go away
for a year or so and everybody forgets me.

Bill, you're just like a case of hemorrhoids and just as subtle.
Which is really unforgettable. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I'll make a bigger impact this time.

How's that?

BWB

No BWB, you are not forgotten, merely dreaded
denny
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:16:24 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:54:16 -0600, "VideoGuy" gkasten at brick dot
net wrote:

Err... Sorry Bill, or is it MR. Phillips?

Gary

It's Dr. Phillips, but I don't use that at all. I prefer Badwater
Bill as I have used it here for nearly 10 years. The Dr. bull **** is
for when I lecture at universities or in Europe. They're big on
titles in both of those places.

I can't believe all the new people that must be in here. I go away
for a year or so and everybody forgets me.

Bill, you're just like a case of hemorrhoids and just as subtle.
Which is really unforgettable. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I'll make a bigger impact this time.

How's that?

BWB

Good Post Bill,

I'm asking you and your detractors to both stay at Rah. (even "a" the
mad scientist.)
As one of the most experienced driver/builder/instructors (wow - seven
instr. ratings) I think you need to post a monthy "BS (Black Sheep)
Rah status" report that summarizes your take of certain homebuilts,
wild claims, national events etc, and your take on other posters
opinions which would include at the end of it a "history of rah"
including all the elements in your post below. I submit it needs to
be posted monthly so that fairly new people like me will understand
some of the references and be able to distinguish anonymous
axe-grinders from people who exclusively use the same "handle" all the
time. This would keep new entrants from assuming you're just a
Howard Stern who pretends, like they do, to fly experimental machines.
John O. and Jay's Rouge Gallery have been invaluable to me in
figuring out who's who around here. I hope they continue announcing
these sites for others. I dig the BWB salute. LOL!

I argue that you should not poll any of the cranky regulars or
old-timers about this idea (because you are one,) Bill, just put those
brass bearings in gear and do it. (what'd you think RAH was? A
democracy?) I think it's pure free-speech hangar flying/building on
the brink of anarchy. I wouldn't have it any other way. :-) Maybe
Corky disagrees with this, but he's a gentleman and doesn't want to
engage in mudslinging. I really like reading Corky's stuff too. It's
good. I however, really enjoy your commentary about everything. I'm
asking you and Jay H, to ignore those other low-altitude bug-smashers
that complain about OT rules and advertising breeches of NG conduct.
Who cares? The rich diversity of posters here with varying
backgrounds and the interactions between them is what makes this NG
interesting for me. Let's not run anybody off that's willing to suck
it up and take a few verbal arrows from the old heads now and then.
Yes, even Dr. No (name.) with sketchy claims of Apollo high gain
antennas and hardware orbiting Mars. (Why not make it the Saturn
Cassini probe too?)

I think that new guys that show up and are shocked, are going to have
to realize what I learned during a wildcat illegal strike that
happened at my airline in Vegas in 86'. I was appalled that other
pilots would cross the picket line and take my job for virtually no
pay and benefits. (remember Royal West Airlines by any chance?) Our
Union sec says to me: Yes pac, most aviators don't realize that
pilot's worst enemies a other pilots.

Budwiser. True. (sorry, I get a commission!)

But I say we verbally lynch anybody who takes their disagreement into
the real world.

I maintain that a few in this group have a lot of trouble with this
concept of Usenet free-speech on unmoderated newsgroups. A guy
shouldn't have to pass through a democratic committee before being
able to post his stories up. And he shouldn't have his computer
attacked in the real world for disagreeing with an obvious rookie
pilot or neophyte builder (as was what happened to me last week, when
someone inserted a new user account into Win XP and hijacked my
administrative functions.) This tells me I must be circulating real
free-speech if the culprit is willing to resort to such low tactics.
Aviation has indeed changed when I took lessons in 1977. I had
respect for the older guys who ran forums at Osh or were published in
builder newsletters or who flew exotic equipment.

I was told here recently by a low-time pilot: "even a fish wouldn't
get into trouble if it kept it's mouth shut." Then I couldn't post
because my cookies had been altered on Internet Explorer and I didn't
have authorization on my own computer to change it! Doesn't this seem
like a low act committed by a control-freak attempting to run-off
pilots with greater breath of background and experience? Or is this
normal in usenet? It would seem to me that this is very
un-American behavior. (as was the act of poking holes in a guy's
airplane or turning them into the feds; unbelievable!) If they can't
live with this free-speech idea, then hopefully, those people, will
consider my suggestion to pick up a one-way ticket to Pyangyang or
Havana. I feel they'd just be happier in a dictatorship in general.
They could really relate to daily intrusions of their private
documents and harsh consequences for exercising their right to voice
an opinion.

I say BWB: stick around. I think you're more than reasonable. If
old friends or posters can't forgive a little foul language and
bluster, then the devil with them. Alternatively, if you find a NG
with better content, or can tell me how to lobby for one that's
moderated by someone with an open mind, let me know.

How about these:

RAR rec.aviation.realpilots
RAS rec.aviation.scudrunning
RAM rec.aviation.mercenaries
RAC rec.aviation.crustyold****ers

Uh Oh, that last one's going to attract Dr. Sanitizer, and his CPU
death ray, I just know it!

pacmad

(off the air for a while till my newfirewall gets in.)








(Badwater Bill) wrote in message .. .

There's no need to be sorry about good fortune but there is also no
need for you to trash everyone who hasn't done exactly what you did
either.

I agree Corky. What I get ****ed off about is the lack of courtesy
that the know-nothings have. The bold and abrasive attacks and
challenges of the know-nothings, the people (unlike you) who really
don't want to learn anything, but just want to lie about what they
are, what they have done and who they are. This place deteriorates to
that level a lot although I haven't seen it in the last three days.


Everyone is different and as the Indian's used to say: "one man cannot
tell another man what to do."

Sure they can. You are just an introvert. The idiots need direction
or they wouldn't be hounding for it.


You were obviously born with the smarts to accomplish what you wanted
to do, that's great. But some people put relationships and family
first, above flying.

I understand that.

I'm too old to be a commercial pilot now, but
I'm not too old to follow through what I started as a kid and get my
license. Now that that's accomplished, the next goal is to finish the
airplane which I started 13 years ago. I cannot spend lots of money
on it because I don't have lots of money to spend. It's a plans built
type airplane because I could not afford the large outlay of cash
necessary to buy a kit upfront. Scrounging for parts and pieces is
interesting but slow. But I get enormous satisfaction in working on
the airplane. When it's finally done, I may go into withdraw with
nothing to do at night but hope for flying weather.

Naaah. You'll find another project. I oil paint and draw a lot, and
build RC models. You'll do the same. You'll find something to use
your right lobe and keep busy when you retire from the library. That's
the way it is with people who are bright. They find a challenge no
matter what stage of life they are in.

I pray for boredom. I haven't had the opportunity to be bored since
childhood. What a luxury to be bored. I pray for the day when I can
once again be bored. I get up at 6 a.m. and I crank-ass all day
long. I try to take a nap,but seldomly get the chance unless I'm just
tired as hell and my body forces me to rest.

GOD! What it would be like to be bored for a couple hours. I have no
chance of looking forward to that in life. There is just too much out
there that I haven't done and want to do. Most of it requires a lot
of study too. I'll explain.

When I was teaching physics at the university, students would come to
my office and ask me how to solve a physics problem I had assigned as
homework. I usually found that they hadn't even tried the problem.
That's like what I see a lot of here on RAH. I would tell them to go
spend 8 hours on the problem and if they couldn't solve it, come back
and I would give them some guidance---I would not tell them that I
would give them the secret to the problem, only some guidance. They
rolled over and puked in my office and went away.

What I hated was someone who wanted to start at the top without paying
the proper dues. Wing-Ding is like that. He want's to have it all
without walking through the maze. I guess most people are like that,
they want degrees and titles and the cream, but pay no dues.

RAH is like that. What I see are people who want a free ride and
capitalize on the experience of all the old time masters like O'ring
and others who left long ago, but the newbees want to pay no dues.
The young people especially nowadays want instant gratification. They
don't want to work for anything. They figure they are worth $15
bucks/hr just because they breath air. If you expect them to do
anything, then that's extra.

I love to paint oil paintings. I'm not that good either. I guess I
like it because I am not that good. I have a LONG way to go before I
get to be what I consider an average artist. I have a friend who is a
master painter by anyone's opinion. Three years ago I went to him and
told him of my secret wish to become a good painter. He was a math
professor at UNLV when I was teaching physics there back in the early
1970's. So, he too is tired of students who "didn't try the problem"
before they came in wanting the secret to the proof. He is a great
mathematician with many published proofs and is well known in his
trade. He is also an accomplished artist with many shows and is worth
enough money that he doesn't have to work anymore. This is what he
said to me, a close friend and good buddy:

"Ah, Bill, so you really want to paint well eh? I would be happy to
help you. This is what you do so you can learn to be an artist. Get
yourself a sketching pad and some good pencils. Draw for an hour each
day for TEN years, the come back to me. I'll be happy to help you
then."

I have been drawing an hour each day now for three years (more, most
days). In seven years I'll go back to him and ask for his advice.

Now that I have drawn for three years, I understand why he said that.
The same thing goes for building airplanes. Go learn to fly at least,
then consider how to build an airplane. Or, go build something
substantial and then consider building an airplane. But, no matter
what you do, DO SOMETHING. Don't just come in swinging and asking
stupid questions like: I want to build an airplane that carries 4
people at 400 mph on 4 gallons/hr and has a service ceiling of 30,000
feet....oh, and I only want to spend $20 grand.

Then if an old boy like me nails the guy, you and all of the rest of
the people of RAH-land condemn me for my uncaring and abrasive
nature. Give me a break. Most of the people here are just not worth
the effort, that's the problem. It isn't a high quality array of
builders or pilots who post here. The most intimidating assholes here
are not pilots, not builders and also anonymous so you can't hunt them
down and kill them for their threats.


Frankly Bill you do not have to be here and I keep wondering what's
keeping you tethered. You hate this place, hate most of the guys here
and **** all over everyone routinely.

You are right Corky. I don't belong here. John Stricker said that
years ago. "Just too much experience for this group Bill."

So, where would you recommend that I go? I like human interaction and
because I am alive I am social. What group do you feel I would fit
into?

There is an entire evolvement that goes on when you post to ng's that
I didn't know 8 years ago. I came in here as a test pilot on Jess
Meyer's RV-6A with the Chevy Engine in it and posted the results of my
flights almost daily. I enjoyed the feedback that I got. Then I
became addicted to the instant feedback. After that I loved just
writing stories here. But what happened next was something that
brought me back to reality.

The Mini-500 helicopter thing happened. I hated what I perceived
Fetters for doing and that was marketing a deathtrap. The builders
elected me as their President and Tony Pucillo was our lawyer. At
that point when real homebuilders were getting killed I got serious
here and on the rotorcraft group. I was very serious. Even Tony saw
a big change in my posts as I became more serious and worried about
the crashes and the fatalities. I did what I could as you all know to
curtail those crashes and help the builders. What that did to me here
is turn me from an entertaining sort of guy, to a man with a mission
to expose what the builders were seeing as inadequacies in that
Kit-helicotper.

So, I went from the jovial story writer to a serious guy to deal with.
I didn't want that, but I really had no choice. And, I do feel like I
saved a few lives. If I never do anything else in life to promote the
safety and well being of pilots everywhere, I feel that my efforts
concerning the Mini-500 were worth it.

What I would like now is to be left alone. I don't want confrontation
or conflict with anyone here. I'd like to post here from time to time
and just convey my thoughts on things, because I really don't know
where else to hang out if I decide to post on the Internet. I have
spent no time on the other groups and I don't know anyone there. RAH
is my depth on Usegroups.

It's like the OMABP. It's a place that all men can go, even to this
day and expect conflict and confrontation on a daily basis. For those
who don't know what the OMABP is, do a search.

Where else do you hang out if you like to talk with people? Maybe
they all don't have your level of professionalism or experience but
it's still a group of people. If you are social then I think you need
people. I'd like things to be different if they could, but I think
they can't. If you know something I don't Corky, then you tell me
where to hang out and I'll try it.

Just don't give me any crap and I won't give you any. That goes for
anyone here. I'm not looking for a fight, but you guys know that I
can end one if some dork picks it.


BWB




Corky Scott

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:22:45 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
wrote:

No BWB, you are not forgotten, merely dreaded
denny

Thank you Denny. Now, that brought a tear to my eye. It's nice to be
appreciated and loved.

BWB

But I say we verbally lynch anybody who takes their disagreement into
the real world.

Man, how I'd like to. The anonymous cowards cover their tracks. But,
in some cases, not all that well. I've set my sights on a couple that
I've found out about.



I say BWB: stick around. I think you're more than reasonable. If
old friends or posters can't forgive a little foul language and
bluster, then the devil with them. Alternatively, if you find a NG
with better content, or can tell me how to lobby for one that's
moderated by someone with an open mind, let me know.

How about these:

RAR rec.aviation.realpilots
RAS rec.aviation.scudrunning
RAM rec.aviation.mercenaries
RAC rec.aviation.crustyold****ers

Now that's for me. Any of them ought to do. I say, you just gotta
have a bit of experience to apply to post there. That cuts all the
armchair anonymous assholes out of the loop.


Uh Oh, that last one's going to attract Dr. Sanitizer, and his CPU
death ray, I just know it!

pacmad

(off the air for a while till my newfirewall gets in.)

ATTABOY Pac. Hang in there buddy. But, nothing here will change.
This place will continue to be infested with people who are infections
on Earth; armchair dreamers who's deepest dream is what they are
going to cook for dinner tonight instead of what airplane they might
fly in their miserable, insignificant lives. Most of the most brazen
and challenging assholes are those who don't even know how to fly.

You come here and post, looking for fellow pilots to talk with and you
get nothing. If you do get a pilot, he most likely hasn't flown
anything experimental or high performance, or strange. So, you end up
talking to yourself mostly.

You start challenging them about something and you see no depth. You
then ask them what they've flown, what their ratings are and what
they've done, and you get ZERO. That's RAH for the most part.

Once in while you'll get someone with some depth to respond. It's
those rare and exciting moments that you wait for and that keep you
here.

I challenge any of the anonymous pricks who shoot off their brazen
mouths here to post a story about flying. Make it up. You *******s
make most of this **** up anyway. But, do something. Do anything
that might be entertaining. You see, Pac, they can't even do that
because they really don't even know what an aileron is. That's the
real problem. Nope, they come here to be challenging and threatening
to those people who have done it for years.

I've been flying since 1957. I can write a story that's complete bull
**** about any facet of aviation and I'll make it believable here.
I've done it. I've purposely put in flaws so the guys who really did
it, could detect it. I laugh like hell when I get bounced about a 50
cal. weapon in the back of a Huey. I know it's an M-60. But I
purposely put 50 Cal in the story just to see who will know. It's
amazing how little they really know. Then you get to thinking that
they can't even fly. So you continue with a few follow-ups and sure
enough, they screw up something really basic. What a hoot. Maybe
that's part of what I like about this ****---bouncing the frauds. Ha
Ha.

Who knows. But there has been something adictive to RAH for me for
many years. I think it's the instant feedback I get on a post. When
I really think something out and put it here, although there is
usually a lot of garbage to follow, there are some people who do think
and who do add some things, no matter what their depth in flying
experience.

Take a guy like John Amp Meter. John doesn't have a lot of flying
experience, but he did build an RV-6 and he learned to fly it well
enough to get a license. That's a great thing. John never pushes
his posts into the areas he knows nothing about. He's an honest man.
If he's going to write a story about something it's obvious that he
writes it with his viewpoint. He doesn't push the envelope to be
something he isn't. He's a breath of fresh air for me to read.
There's never any bull **** with John's posts.

Bourbon is another one. He's an old high timer like me, but he never
pushes into the stuff he doesn't know about. If you read his posts,
they are always his opinion about something, or a funny quip about
something. He too is an honest man and he is insightful.

The insulting fakes who threaten and challenge and abrade you here is
what wears me out. Mostly, there is so much wrong with each post they
make, it would take too much time to counter it because you would have
to lay too much foundation for anyone to follow it. So, you just take
their **** and shake your head.

Ahh, well, I'm rambling on about crap that is not even fun. I'm
outahere. **** ya all.

Bad Billy, Bad to the bone!

No BWB, you are not forgotten, merely dreaded
denny

Thank you Denny. Now, that brought a tear to my eye. It's nice to be
appreciated and loved.

Maybe you just farted.