How Aircraft Stay In The Air

(George) wrote:

(Jack Linthicum) wrote in message . com...
David Phillips wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:04:30 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

(Moggycat) wrote:
:
:AIUI, bumblebee wings are more like helicopter rotors rather than
:simply flapping up and down.
:
:Has something to do with them crashing together overhead on the
:upsweep doesn't it?...

So is the claim that bumblebees, like helicopters, do not really fly?
They just vibrate so badly the Earth rejects them?

I'm not certain, but I think the conventional wisdom was that
bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly, based on the understanding of
flight when humans were first beginning to get off the ground. Later
on, as things such as the viscosity of the air, and Reynolds number,
and other such stuff, the theory caught up with the fact that there
are very tiny lift demons that are used by insects.

http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_3_31.html

This is one story of the origin of the statement. The biologist was
too polite to suggest to the Swiss aerdynamicist that he had used too
many assumptions in his cocktail napkin model. Smooth wings, weight,
wing area, etc meant the wing area was insufficient to allow the
bumblebee to fly. No mention of lift pixies or any of the other
well-known (to biologists) extraneous factors, such as mass hypnotism.

"So, no one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was
that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or
appropriate for describing the flight of a bumblebee. Insect flight
and wing movements can be quite complicated. Wings aren't rigid. They
bend and twist. Stroke angles change." pixies take breaks, etc.

"whooh, whooh, whooh, whooh, whooh, whooh (cough) whooh, whooh, whooh,
whooh, whooh" Printing on the cork of Smoking Loon Merlot, 1999.

Actually bumblebees still can't fly.
There are, however, little walkways to their favourite flowers.
The wings are just for balance...
:-)

....and to make that whooh whooh sound to mislead those dumb two
legged beings who scream and run when we approach.
--

-Gord.

"Duke of URL" macbenahATkdsiDOTnet wrote:

:In ,
:Taki Kogoma radiated into the WorldWideWait:
: On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:04:30 GMT,
: allegedly declared to sci.military.naval...
: "Gord Beaman" ) wrote:
: (Moggycat) wrote:
:
: AIUI, bumblebee wings are more like helicopter rotors rather than
: simply flapping up and down.
:
: Has something to do with them crashing together overhead on the
: upsweep doesn't it?...
:
: So is the claim that bumblebees, like helicopters, do not really
: fly? They just vibrate so badly the Earth rejects them?
:
: No.
:
: More like they do not as much fly as beat the air into submission.
:
:Hotdesking is a BEE???

Looks like at least a 'C' to me, judging from the photos. ;-)

Jack Linthicum wrote:

David Phillips wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:04:30 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

(Moggycat) wrote:
:
:AIUI, bumblebee wings are more like helicopter rotors rather than
:simply flapping up and down.
:
:Has something to do with them crashing together overhead on the
:upsweep doesn't it?...

So is the claim that bumblebees, like helicopters, do not really fly?
They just vibrate so badly the Earth rejects them?

I'm not certain, but I think the conventional wisdom was that
bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly, based on the understanding of
flight when humans were first beginning to get off the ground. Later
on, as things such as the viscosity of the air, and Reynolds number,
and other such stuff, the theory caught up with the fact that there
are very tiny lift demons that are used by insects.

http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_3_31.html

This is one story of the origin of the statement. The biologist was
too polite to suggest to the Swiss aerdynamicist that he had used too
many assumptions in his cocktail napkin model. Smooth wings, weight,
wing area, etc meant the wing area was insufficient to allow the
bumblebee to fly. No mention of lift pixies or any of the other
well-known (to biologists) extraneous factors, such as mass hypnotism.

Mmmmmm
Twisting wings !
The Wright Brothers would be proud !

Graham

In ,
Fred J. McCall radiated into the
WorldWideWait:
"Duke of URL" macbenahATkdsiDOTnet wrote:
In ,
Taki Kogoma radiated into the WorldWideWait:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:04:30 GMT,
allegedly declared to sci.military.naval...
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:
(Moggycat) wrote:

AIUI, bumblebee wings are more like helicopter rotors rather
than simply flapping up and down.

Has something to do with them crashing together overhead on the
upsweep doesn't it?...

So is the claim that bumblebees, like helicopters, do not really
fly? They just vibrate so badly the Earth rejects them?

No.

More like they do not as much fly as beat the air into submission.

Hotdesking is a BEE???

Looks like at least a 'C' to me, judging from the photos. ;-)

Ooo... Just wait - she'll be around to beat you into submission soon.
--
From the one-and-only Holy Moses®

"Duke of URL" macbenahATkdsiDOTnet wrote in message
...
In ,
Taki Kogoma radiated into the WorldWideWait:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:04:30 GMT,
allegedly declared to sci.military.naval...
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:
(Moggycat) wrote:

AIUI, bumblebee wings are more like helicopter rotors rather than
simply flapping up and down.

Has something to do with them crashing together overhead on the
upsweep doesn't it?...

So is the claim that bumblebees, like helicopters, do not really
fly? They just vibrate so badly the Earth rejects them?

No.

More like they do not as much fly as beat the air into submission.

Hotdesking is a BEE???

The sting of the lash gives me a buzz .....

--
Sarah H
http://www.messybeast.com
http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk...-site/aeth.htm
Aethism - a religion for the 21st Century

Pooh Bear wrote in message ...
Jack Linthicum wrote:

David Phillips wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:04:30 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

(Moggycat) wrote:
:
:AIUI, bumblebee wings are more like helicopter rotors rather than
:simply flapping up and down.
:
:Has something to do with them crashing together overhead on the
:upsweep doesn't it?...

So is the claim that bumblebees, like helicopters, do not really fly?
They just vibrate so badly the Earth rejects them?

I'm not certain, but I think the conventional wisdom was that
bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly, based on the understanding of
flight when humans were first beginning to get off the ground. Later
on, as things such as the viscosity of the air, and Reynolds number,
and other such stuff, the theory caught up with the fact that there
are very tiny lift demons that are used by insects.

http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_3_31.html

This is one story of the origin of the statement. The biologist was
too polite to suggest to the Swiss aerdynamicist that he had used too
many assumptions in his cocktail napkin model. Smooth wings, weight,
wing area, etc meant the wing area was insufficient to allow the
bumblebee to fly. No mention of lift pixies or any of the other
well-known (to biologists) extraneous factors, such as mass hypnotism.

Mmmmmm
Twisting wings !
The Wright Brothers would be proud !


Actually the Wright Brothers would sue for patent infringement.

Peter Twydell wrote:

It's a yeast extract. The UK variant is Marmite, and is a delicious
accompaniment to buttered toast (see how we stay very nearly on
topic?) and is marvellous spread thinly on good strong Cheddar cheese
(I kid you not). Vegemite, OTOH, is a vile Antipodean *******
offspring that resembles the stuff you have to scrape off your shoe.

Oi, Jimmy! Marmite is an antipodean (to me) strange concoction of
evil-tasting slightly sweet muck. Vegemite is the true nectar of the
gods. Try it with tiger stripes: alternate strips of thick butter and
vegemite on the toast.

As well as with cheese, lightly spread it on toast (on-topic again) with
a poached egg on top. Yummy.

--
Nick

In article , Nick Coleman spambucketPokeMyEy
writes
Peter Twydell wrote:

It's a yeast extract. The UK variant is Marmite, and is a delicious
accompaniment to buttered toast (see how we stay very nearly on
topic?) and is marvellous spread thinly on good strong Cheddar cheese
(I kid you not). Vegemite, OTOH, is a vile Antipodean *******
offspring that resembles the stuff you have to scrape off your shoe.

Oi, Jimmy! Marmite is an antipodean (to me) strange concoction of
evil-tasting slightly sweet muck. Vegemite is the true nectar of the
gods. Try it with tiger stripes: alternate strips of thick butter and
vegemite on the toast.

As well as with cheese, lightly spread it on toast (on-topic again) with
a poached egg on top. Yummy.



Absolute cobblers!

Marmite must be the best 'cos Our Boys won the World Cup and yours
didn't. So there. :-)))))

(I think I'll have a couple of soft-boiled eggs with Marmite soldiers
for breakfast)
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

"Nick Coleman" wrote

Oi, Jimmy! Marmite is an antipodean (to me) strange concoction of
evil-tasting slightly sweet muck. Vegemite is the true nectar of the
gods. Try it with tiger stripes: alternate strips of thick butter and
vegemite on the toast.

As well as with cheese, lightly spread it on toast (on-topic again) with
a poached egg on top. Yummy.

A very soft boiled egg with a dab of 'mite-style supermarket own brand yeast
extract in the yolk - nectar! Alternatively the toasted dipping sticks of
toast require a generous layer of 'mite (caution: do not eat this straight
before a blood pressure check-up unless you want a lecture from the medic)

--
Sarah H
http://www.messybeast.com
http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk...-site/aeth.htm
Aethism - a religion for the 21st Century

Sarah Hotdesking wrote:

A very soft boiled egg with a dab of 'mite-style supermarket own brand
yeast
extract in the yolk - nectar! Alternatively the toasted dipping
sticks of
toast require a generous layer of 'mite (caution: do not eat this
straight before a blood pressure check-up unless you want a lecture
from the medic)

Yummmmm, 'mite soldiers dipped in egg yolk drool. My grandmother knew
what she was about, I tell you. (It was her that taught me how to boil
an egg when I was 10...)

--
Nick