Why The Hell... (random rant)

Ron Natalie writes:

Nope, GPS finds a 3-d position based on the relative distances between
sets of satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

Roughly, yes.

It knows no more about
true north than magnetic without elaborate conversion between where
the satellites are at any given instant and where the earth is.

With two fixes, it has true north. If it's moving, it has at least two fixes.

Funny, I'm looking at the sky today and all I see are clouds.
My compass still works.

There are lots of places on Earth where your compass won't work, but an ANS
will.

You are clueless aren't you. The engine in just about every airplane
out there runs just freaking fine without any electrical power consumed
nor delivered to the rest of the aircraft.

Are they all Diesels?

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Ron Natalie writes:

This is makes you look pathetically
stupid and is the main reason that most people on this forum
are hostile to you.

I think that's a bit backwards. People who are stupid are likely to be
hostile.

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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

Because some were never right. Some where set right but the local
variation has changed and the VOR's were never realigned. It's
not necessary for them to set exact, just that they are known with
a reasonable precision. The fact that they are close to magnetic
north is again as we've been saying, convenience because all courses
and headings IN FLIGHT are done magnetic.


If they were set to true north they would still be known with a reasonable
precision. They'd be no less useful and they wouldn't have to ever be reset
due to magnetic drift.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Ron Natalie writes:

Correct, that was my point. It doesn't change anything. Magnetic
south and magnetic north are still opposite directions at any given
point on the earth.

They are close to opposite, but not exactly so.

And that doesn't matter in the slightest.

Give me a chart and a compass and I'll do just fine VFR.

If you have a chart, you're not using your magnetic compass _alone_.

And even if you have a chart and a compass, how do you determine where you
are?

By looking out the windows.

In my real airplane, I can fly all around the local area for about
50 miles by doing nothing other than looking out the window and
occasionally at the compass.

In your toy flight simulator, I can't get from one local airport to
another by looking at terrain. I have to use the simulator instruments.

That's yet another difference between real and simulated flight.

--
Jim Pennino

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In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Tim writes:

Tell that to Charlie Lindbergh.

Charles Lindbergh had not only multiple compasses but charts and a timekeeping
device. He never would have gotten anywhere with just a compass alone.

A true enough statement, but one that shows how very little you know
about navigation.

--
Jim Pennino

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In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Ron Natalie writes:

CHORTLE. Have you any experience with a real INS. A real INS can't
find squat without being told where it is starting from. This has
to be boostrapped from other navigational devices. It's long term
stability isn't any better than a compass. It needs additional
input.

Not to find true north. It can find true north all on its own.

Total, utter, nonsense.

You haven't the slightest clue how either a INS or a gyro compass
work.

snip rest

--
Jim Pennino

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In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

If you want to go to and from true and magnetic, you need a chart to
get the local difference.

If you want to do anything, you need more than a compass.

You need to know the heading to use to get somewhere. You use the
compass to actually go that direction.

If all you want to do is go in some particular direction until you
can see a recognizable landmark, all you need is a compass.

In order to recognize the landmark, you need something more than a compass.

You mean like fly a heading 230 degrees for 47 miles and there will be
a lake. At the lake fly a heading of 273 degrees for 32 miles and
at that airport, fly a heading of 264 degrees for another 44 miles
and you will be at your destination?

You obviously know nothing of real world navigation.

--
Jim Pennino

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In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
EridanMan writes:

The system is a rube goldberg contraption with an instant-on kill
switch.

There is no instant-on kill switch. It takes quite a bit of time to send
commands to all the satellites.

Yeah, a few seconds once the decision is made.

Wait until someone launches a home-made GPS guided cruise
missile into Washington DC, watch them flick the switch, and see what
happens. Just hope it doesn't happen at night, and you're not in the
air at the time.

They can't do that any more. It would be a worse disaster to turn it off than
it would be to just let it run, for both military and civilian use.

If backup systems like VOR, NDB, LORAN didn't exist, that might be
true, but the backukp systems do exist.

It also requires constant, very expensive maintenance, a complex
receiver in good working order, and as I mentioned, can be turned off
at the push of a button. None of these are traits you want for you
primary navigation system.

It cannot be turned off at the push of a button. I'm not aware of any
constant maintenance requirement. Databases have to be updated by a
monopolistic price-gouging private enterprise, but that's a separate issue.

We'll just add that to the long and growing list of things you are
not aware of.

The simplest, fastest and most dependable (in VMC) way of finding true
north (or any form of navigation) is simple spatial awareness and
pilotage. A good chart, and a good eye.

I wouldn't trust those.

That's because you haven't a clue as to how to use them, especially
the awareness part.

--
Jim Pennino

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In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Ron Natalie writes:

Nope, GPS finds a 3-d position based on the relative distances between
sets of satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

Roughly, yes.

It knows no more about
true north than magnetic without elaborate conversion between where
the satellites are at any given instant and where the earth is.

With two fixes, it has true north. If it's moving, it has at least two fixes.

And that tells you your course, not which direction the nose is pointed.

There is no GPS instrument available that will tell you which way
your nose is pointed.

Funny, I'm looking at the sky today and all I see are clouds.
My compass still works.

There are lots of places on Earth where your compass won't work, but an ANS
will.

The only two places on Earth a magnetic compass doesn't work in an
airplane are over the north and south magnetic poles.

You really are ignorant, aren't you?

You are clueless aren't you. The engine in just about every airplane
out there runs just freaking fine without any electrical power consumed
nor delivered to the rest of the aircraft.

Are they all Diesels?

Good lord.

Ignorant doesn't even begin to describe how totally, utterly, and
completely clueless you are.

Piston engines have magnetos which generate the spark plug firing
voltage, and only the spark plug voltage. The engine has no other
need for electrical power and doesn't generate electrical power
to run things like GPS unless it has a generator or an alternator
installed. Many airplanes have neither a generator or an alternator.

Turbine engines only require electrical power to start. Once they
are running, they are self sustaining.

If you are going to be a pretend pilot, at least go learn some
basics so you don't look like a complete fool.

--
Jim Pennino

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On Apr 5, 1:33 am, RomeoMike wrote:
DR wrote:
Declination in navigation is actually
something else but I'll let you googgle for it.

I'm not sure that's really true. In aviation we talk about variation,
but when I'm using 7.5' topo maps on the ground, declination is the term
used for the difference
between magnetic and true north. (See the bottom left of a US DOI
Geologic Survey 7.5' topo.)
Variation and declination are defined the same
If there's a more sophisticated use of the word declination in
navigation, I'm willing to be enlightened.

Astro navigation, but it's still an angle away from a standard
vector. So different sciences are using the same word with different
meanings.

However, you're of course correct that for magnetic navigation,
declination and variation are the same thing.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/faqgeom.shtml

Kev