At last, the truth...

Why is it *so* unbelievable to so many people that a woman can be just
as passionate about *flying* as a man can be -- just for the love of
FLYING, not to get to the airlines or to find a husband?

It's not.

What is unbelievable is that anywhere near as many women feel this way
as men. It is unbelievable because so few such women are observed.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Why is it *so* unbelievable to so many people that a woman can be just
as passionate about *flying* as a man can be -- just for the love of
FLYING, not to get to the airlines or to find a husband?

Oh, it's not unbelievable. I've met two or three like that - about one
for every hundred men like that.

Sure makes for some interesting odds.

Michael

Xmnushal8y:
Why is it *so* unbelievable to so many people that a woman can be just
as passionate about *flying* as a man can be -- just for the love of
FLYING, not to get to the airlines or to find a husband?

Jose wrote:
It's not.

What is unbelievable is that anywhere near as many women feel this way
as men. It is unbelievable because so few such women are observed.

No one claimed that there were ''anywhere near as many'' ... but there
are SOME, and maybe if there wasn't a pre-established
assumption/presumption about why we're there, you might observe that
there are more of us who feel that way (about flying) than you think!

No one claimed that there were ''anywhere near as many'' ... but there
are SOME, and maybe if there wasn't a pre-established
assumption/presumption about why we're there, you might observe that
there are more of us who feel that way (about flying) than you think!

Noone claimed, as you imply, that there are none.

My flying club has about fifty members. Of them, only one is a woman.
As it turns out, her husband is also a pilot, and a member of the same club.

Of my personal friends, I know only a few women pilots; one is even an
aerobatics champion. As it turns out, none of my personal male friends
are aerobatics pilots.

I've flown with four female CFIs, but probably close to twenty or thirty
male CFIs. Where there's a choice I try to fly with the women, figuring
that a woman who is trying to make it in any male-dominated field is
likely to have more passion for it than the men.

Yes, they are out there. Nobody said nay. Perhaps they are less
visible than their numbers would dictate.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

unicate wrote:

Why is it *so* unbelievable to so many people that a woman can be just
as passionate about *flying* as a man can be -- just for the love of
FLYING, not to get to the airlines or to find a husband?

It's not unbelievable; I know such a woman.

That's it: one.

"Dan Luke" wrote:
Is it so unbelievable to you that women, for whatever reasons, are
*generally* less disposed to be interested than men in flying just for
the love of it?

No, I'm not arguing that women are *generally* less inclined to be as
interested in or passionate about flying as men. I totally agree with
that.

What I'm responding to here is the assumption that most women pilots are
''on the career track'' OR are ''attached to a male pilot'', and the
presumption that unlike men, *women* pilots are not in it, on their own,
for an intense love of flying. There may be more women in flying *for
the love of flying* than you think ... maybe you just presumed they were
there for other reasons, because that's the stereotype. (Just for the
record, I'm not disagreeing that *some* are there to get their M.R.S.
certificate, either!)

Yes, they are out there. Nobody said nay. Perhaps they are less visible
than their numbers would dictate.

One thing Mary and I have noticed is that female voices on the radio are
predominantly CFIs or commuter airline drivers. It's rare, indeed, to hear
a woman just out flying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
I've flown with four female CFIs, but probably close to twenty or thirty
male CFIs. Where there's a choice I try to fly with the women, figuring
that a woman who is trying to make it in any male-dominated field is
likely to have more passion for it than the men.

My favorite CFI was a young woman about my age at the time (mid 20's) who
soloed me. She was very patient and positive with her comments.

I liked her because she was a very good flight instructor, a natural teacher
and a good pilot. She got hired away to the regionals just after I soloed.
The next guy was dumb as a box of rocks. The one after that had a death
wish, I swear.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1124292929.497629@sj-nntpcache-3...
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Andrew, that is the worst job of sniping I've seen in a while. You sipped
everything I wrote which was in no way questioning your comparisons or
even your thesis.

His snipping is not so hot, either.

I was trying to save bandwidth.

Those "P's" cost money.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Huh? I did not snip anything. Your whole post was quoted in my reply.
Besides, I did not imply that you were questioning my statements. I was
simply clairfying why your numbers were different from mine.




===MY POST===
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Check http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/trend.html for a quantitative
summary of trends. Private, commercial and instrument issuances are
down 12% since 2000. New aircraft shipments are down 10% since 2000.
Avgas sale is down almost 25% since 1999. OK, dying may be an
overstatement, but it is not looking rosy either. On the other hand,
this year's Airventure drew record crowds. I am not sure what to make
of that, but it is probably something similar to what happens in
spectator sports. Large number of people turn up to watch but very few
are able to participate.


Interesting....

Total Student Issuances
59,989
59,311
-1%
-678

Private Issuances
23,826
23,331
-2%
-495




If you use these numbers you would get a pretty good feel for the number of
people who start and then don't get their license. If only 10% of the
drop-outs were retained that would be more than 3600 more private pilots.

==END MY POST==

==YOUR POST==
"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in
news:3isMe.1815$7f5.1413@okepread01:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Check http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/trend.html for a quantitative
summary of trends. Private, commercial and instrument issuances are
down 12% since 2000. New aircraft shipments are down 10% since 2000.
Avgas sale is down almost 25% since 1999. OK, dying may be an
overstatement, but it is not looking rosy either. On the other hand,
this year's Airventure drew record crowds. I am not sure what to make
of that, but it is probably something similar to what happens in
spectator sports. Large number of people turn up to watch but very
few are able to participate.


Interesting....

Total Student Issuances
59,989
59,311
-1%
-678

Private Issuances
23,826
23,331
-2%
-495





You are comparing the 2004 numbers to 2003. I was comparing the 2004
numbers to the peak year (which in this case was 2002). The change in
private issuance is -18% in that case. Student pilot issuance is also -
11%.

==END YOUR POST==

You removed what was essentially my entire post.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote:
[snip]
If you use these numbers you would get a pretty good
feel for the number of people who start and then don't
get their license. If only 10% of the drop-outs were
retained that would be more than 3600 more private
pilots.

Maybe I'm missing the point ... ???

There will *always* be a drop-out rate. The only way to say that
aviation has a high(er) drop-out rate is to compare it to other
activities with at least *some* expense, risk-factor, high mental demand
and time commitment similarities, where you train to fill requirements
and test for a license. Then compare those current numbers to two, five
or ten years ago to see if those other activities currently are
experiencing a higher drop-out rate, too. How high is the drop-out rate
for student sky-divers? What percentage of med school students actually
become doctors? The state of the economy could play a part in drop-out
trends, too.

Everyone here understands that learning to fly is a huge endeavor that
takes money, commitment, time, energy, and the support of whoever you
live with. It also requires access to a CFI that you work well with that
is available when you are, and reliable, well-maintained equipment. The
absence of any *ONE* of those elements is enough to make it impossible
to complete the training ... or even to continue after the rating is
achieved (except the presence of the CFI). That said, not everyone who
*has* all those elements sees it through to completion, either. Without
meaning to sound arrogant, I'm not sure there is, or should be, a way to
fix that.