Near miss from space junk.

On Apr 3, 9:49 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
The amount of instrument training a PPL student receives is sufficient
in theory to allow him/her to get the hell out of the weather. Its not
intended to allow you to press on in IMC. You need a lot more IF
training to be proficient enough to not kill yourself..

I agree, based on what I've seen of instrument knowledge among alleged pilots
here. But nothing prevents you from learning about instrument flight if you
want to. Personally, I think instrument flight is highly interesting and it
surprises me that so many VFR pilots do not seem to look into it. In fact, I
learned how to fly on instruments before learning how to fly by hand, since
early simulators were much better at simulating instrument flight than they
were at simulating real flight (they still are, but now visual flight is much
more realistic and good enough to be worth practicing).

Whenever I fly on instruments on a sim it seems different to when I
did it for my license - the aircraft just continually seems to be
moving left or right or whatever, which meant a moment looking away
from my scan and when you look back the damn thing seems to be leaning
over... I had so much trouble just keeping it upright without getting
the leans that I imagine several years and no practise later I would
have even more trouble.



The last thing I'd be doing is diverting my attention from my scan to
read a chart when I would almost certainly be struggling keeping it
upright.

The aircraft is no more difficult to maintain upright in zero visibility than
it is in perfectly clear weather. There are no evil demons trying to turn it
over just because you are in IMC. Set it straight and level and trim for it
and then you can look at your chart.


If you lose visual reference it's damn easy to get the leans, as I
found out when I did my PPL IF training

If there is someone in the right-hand seat, he or she can help a lot as well,
although that's not an absolute requirement.

No, you get the hell out of the IMC

If you don't know where you are, which way do you go to get out?

Back the way you came.. When flying near bad weather I keep looking
back to make sure my escape route is still open...



If you've just plunged into IMC, you can make a U-turn and probably get back
out. But if that doesn't work, you'll need a plan B.

Two things we are trained to do in the event of imminent IMC. 1)
Always make sure you have an escape route
2) We practise precautionary landings. Stick the damn thing down in a
paddock rather than pressing on and killing yourself.

The first makes sense. But how do you land in IMC?

Well, as I understand it, the IMC that refers to is the rising terrain
and lowering cloud base, or an approaching line of crap.. Which looks
like a grey curtain stretching across the horizon.. If you can't
escape you can set down in a field before it nails you

"chris" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 4, 2:16 am, Jose wrote:
Hey guys.. I have noticed a bit of a theme with these posts.. It
seems people here are saying it's nice to have a stick to dip your
tanks. That makes it sound like it's not standard to have one???

None of the aircraft I fly have sticks. For the tanks, that is. I
carry a stick myself but I don't have calibration marks for some of the
aircraft. The reading could be different depending on the slope of the
tarmac too.

Cherokees have a tab indicating an amount that's about 2/3 full. I
presume (but don't know for sure) that it is relatively accurate over a
wider range of tilt than other fuel levels.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I am not trying to be difficult here, but I just wondered... If they
don't have sticks, how do you know how many hours gas it's got without
using the gauges?? And if that's the case, you are assuming the
gauges are accurate. Without deciding on your preflight that it's got
a certain amount of fuel in it, how can you then know if the # of gals
on the gauge is actually in the tank?? I suppose if you always fly
with the tanks full it's OK, but you can't guarantee on every flight
it will have full tanks...


Pilot supply shops sell calibrated stick type gages for popular aircraft
types.

Ref:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl....1833&CATID=172

But if your tank is a predictable shape, it wouldn't be too difficult to
make you own. Obviously round or irregular shaped tanks would be more
difficult, but not impossible. If your aircraft has two tanks and a
selector, you could always run one dry and calibrate a stick as you fill the
take in stages. But all the sticks I have seen used in the US were bought at
different FBOs and pilot shops, and were designed and manufactured for the
particular aircraft.

I think the reason the aircraft where I rent don't have them, is that pilots
too often steal them. Same situation for fuel sampling equipment. I have to
carry my own.

chris wrote:
Will you fly with a new moon and CAVU weather, especially
over open country? You've got the same problem. Does NZ permit
night flight without an instrument rating and/or being on an
instrument flight plan?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I am not sure if it's law or just our club, but even with a night
rating you aren't meant to do cross country flights. Stay within a
certain distance of the club. I think it's 25nm but not sure


Does NZ not require you to be familier with the privileges that your license
grants you?

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
chris wrote:
Will you fly with a new moon and CAVU weather, especially
over open country? You've got the same problem. Does NZ permit
night flight without an instrument rating and/or being on an
instrument flight plan?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I am not sure if it's law or just our club, but even with a night
rating you aren't meant to do cross country flights. Stay within a
certain distance of the club. I think it's 25nm but not sure


Does NZ not require you to be familier with the privileges that your
license grants you?


Does it really matter if he has no desire to exceed it?

It's been so long since my written, there is a lot about my requirements and
privileges I'm not certain of, and a lot of things have changed. I know I am
within my limitiations flying in my desires areas, operaitons, and know I
would need to do a little refreshing if I ever plan to exceed them. But what
the heck.

"chris" wrote in
ps.com:



Will you fly with a new moon and CAVU weather, especially
over open
country? You've got the same problem. Does NZ permit night flight
without an instrument rating and/or being on an instrument flight
plan?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I am not sure if it's law or just our club, but even with a night
rating you aren't meant to do cross country flights. Stay within a
certain distance of the club. I think it's 25nm but not sure


That sure sounds like a club rule. But even limiting you to 25nm
doesn't guarantee you will always have friendly terrain underneath you to
land in an emergency, especially on a dark night.

If you are properly rated for night flight, this seems like just
another senseless rule. I can see a club putting in a rule like this for
students and maybe even low time members, but for everyone?

My "favorite" club rule, and this was present at one time in the rules
for at least 3 clubs at a nearby airport, was the one prohibiting landings
on runways less than 3,000' long. This airport's only runway is 2,443'
long. I always wondered where the club expected members to return the
aircraft while complying with this rule.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Maxwell wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
chris wrote:
Will you fly with a new moon and CAVU weather, especially
over open country? You've got the same problem. Does NZ permit
night flight without an instrument rating and/or being on an
instrument flight plan?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I am not sure if it's law or just our club, but even with a night
rating you aren't meant to do cross country flights. Stay within a
certain distance of the club. I think it's 25nm but not sure


Does NZ not require you to be familier with the privileges that your
license grants you?


Does it really matter if he has no desire to exceed it?

It's been so long since my written, there is a lot about my
requirements and privileges I'm not certain of, and a lot of things
have changed. I know I am within my limitiations flying in my desires
areas, operaitons, and know I would need to do a little refreshing if
I ever plan to exceed them. But what the heck.

If he doesn't know what the limitation is how can he know he is not
exceeding it?

chris wrote:

I am not trying to be difficult here, but I just wondered... If they
don't have sticks, how do you know how many hours gas it's got without
using the gauges?? And if that's the case, you are assuming the
gauges are accurate. Without deciding on your preflight that it's got
a certain amount of fuel in it, how can you then know if the # of gals
on the gauge is actually in the tank?? I suppose if you always fly
with the tanks full it's OK, but you can't guarantee on every flight
it will have full tanks...

Perfectly valid points. I'm one of those that tops off the tanks before a
flight, about 90% of the time. For that other 10%, I look in the tanks and
visually verify the amount of fuel. With a little experience, it's pretty
easy to come within a gallon or so on a Cherokee. When I owned a Cessna, I
used a stick. I didn't see any reliable way to visually verify the fuel in
the Cessna without climbing on top of the wing. When I was still working on
my PPL, my instructors had me stick a finger in the tank, but this was only
valid if verifying that the fuel level was very near full.

The gauges are never a subsitute for verifying the level of fuel in the
tanks (by stick or by sight). Many a pilot has ended up on an NTSB report
for assuming the gauges were accurate.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

On Apr 4, 8:46 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
chris wrote:
Will you fly with a new moon and CAVU weather, especially
over open country? You've got the same problem. Does NZ permit
night flight without an instrument rating and/or being on an
instrument flight plan?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I am not sure if it's law or just our club, but even with a night
rating you aren't meant to do cross country flights. Stay within a
certain distance of the club. I think it's 25nm but not sure

Does NZ not require you to be familier with the privileges that your license
grants you?

I don't have a night rating, hence I am unsure what the rules are.

On Apr 4, 8:02 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"chris" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Apr 4, 2:16 am, Jose wrote:
Hey guys.. I have noticed a bit of a theme with these posts.. It
seems people here are saying it's nice to have a stick to dip your
tanks. That makes it sound like it's not standard to have one???

None of the aircraft I fly have sticks. For the tanks, that is. I
carry a stick myself but I don't have calibration marks for some of the
aircraft. The reading could be different depending on the slope of the
tarmac too.

Cherokees have a tab indicating an amount that's about 2/3 full. I
presume (but don't know for sure) that it is relatively accurate over a
wider range of tilt than other fuel levels.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I am not trying to be difficult here, but I just wondered... If they
don't have sticks, how do you know how many hours gas it's got without
using the gauges?? And if that's the case, you are assuming the
gauges are accurate. Without deciding on your preflight that it's got
a certain amount of fuel in it, how can you then know if the # of gals
on the gauge is actually in the tank?? I suppose if you always fly
with the tanks full it's OK, but you can't guarantee on every flight
it will have full tanks...

Pilot supply shops sell calibrated stick type gages for popular aircraft
types.

Ref:http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl....1833&CATID=172

But if your tank is a predictable shape, it wouldn't be too difficult to
make you own. Obviously round or irregular shaped tanks would be more
difficult, but not impossible. If your aircraft has two tanks and a
selector, you could always run one dry and calibrate a stick as you fill the
take in stages. But all the sticks I have seen used in the US were bought at
different FBOs and pilot shops, and were designed and manufactured for the
particular aircraft.

I think the reason the aircraft where I rent don't have them, is that pilots
too often steal them. Same situation for fuel sampling equipment. I have to
carry my own.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Our fuel sampling equipment would get lost more times than it is
stolen. Ditto for fuel cards. I was trained that there is enough
time after swiping the card to walk back to the plane and put the card
inside, rather than leaving it on the fuel pump which is a recipe for
leaving it behind...

On Apr 4, 10:01 am, Marty Shapiro
wrote:
"chris" wrote oups.com:







Will you fly with a new moon and CAVU weather, especially
over open
country? You've got the same problem. Does NZ permit night flight
without an instrument rating and/or being on an instrument flight
plan?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I am not sure if it's law or just our club, but even with a night
rating you aren't meant to do cross country flights. Stay within a
certain distance of the club. I think it's 25nm but not sure

That sure sounds like a club rule. But even limiting you to 25nm
doesn't guarantee you will always have friendly terrain underneath you to
land in an emergency, especially on a dark night.

If you are properly rated for night flight, this seems like just
another senseless rule. I can see a club putting in a rule like this for
students and maybe even low time members, but for everyone?

My "favorite" club rule, and this was present at one time in the rules
for at least 3 clubs at a nearby airport, was the one prohibiting landings
on runways less than 3,000' long. This airport's only runway is 2,443'
long. I always wondered where the club expected members to return the
aircraft while complying with this rule.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, it sure doesn't guarantee friendly terrain. Which is why I
haven't got a night rating yet, I don't like that idea very much.

I heard once a good thing to do during a forced landing at night is to
turn your landing light on, if you don't like what you see, turn it
off again :-)

Another reason I haven't gone for my night rating yet is this part of
the country is fog city during the winter, and it's more often than
not foggy at the airport. I don't like the idea of coming back and
being stuck unable to land. Apparently the tower watches for signs of
fog forming and tells anyone in the area to get their asses back
pronto. If they miss out there is a set procedure to fly to a certain
major airport which doesn't get fogged in, which is 25 mins flight
time away at a certain altitude. Don't like that idea either,
really... Especially if I gotta work the next day...