Iowa Aviation Weather...en Espanol

mad8 writes:

in this thread we were discussing the US last time I checked ...

And comparing it to other countries.

The ability to learn a language isn't indicative of a person's
industriousness or intelligence.

The ability to learn languages is closely correlated with general
intelligence. The success one obtains in attempting to do so is mostly linked
to motivation.

My father for example has a phd in laser optics (which IS indicative
of at least hard work) and is very well employed here. It took him
about 10 years to become (more or less) fluent in english, and he
still has quite a bit of an accent (everyone understands him, but
he sounds distinctly foreign).

He probably has very little motivation to learn English. Motivation is more
important than aptitude in learning a language, even though intelligence is a
key factor in determining aptitude.

You wouldn't deny a deaf person assistance taking the citizenship
test, so why would you deny a non-native-speaker?

As long as the deaf person speaks American sign language.

Deaf people don't speak English because they can't. Non-deaf people don't
speak English because they don't wish to. Big difference.

Learning english isn't an instant process (even for babies). pretty
much all who are able to, eventually learn english. Those who don't,
usually don't get much further than the construction business.
also, none of them are elligible for any government assistance until
they become citizens. Therefore, they have to make something of
themselves in the 5-10 years it takes to naturalize in the US.

Good.

on that note, go download a INS simulator and play it. It's much
easier than actually going through the immigration process.

I'm already have my citizenship.

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mad8 writes:

ATC is in english in the US, and nobody seems to request accomodations
for non-english speaking pilots (hell i think the FAR stipulates that
the pilot must speak english).

Yes, English is _mandatory_ for pilots in the U.S.

But if i'm flying into Germany, for example, would I be speaking
to their ATC in german or english?

Your choice. Their ATC is supposed to be bilingual.

What about Mexico?

See above.

What if i'm a mexican pilot would it be english or
spanish?

In a Spanish-speaking country, you'd have the choice of English or Spanish.
In any other country, you'd be required to speak English.

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Sylvain writes:

well, brace yourself for a surprise then when you eventually venture
outside...

Such as where?

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C J Campbell writes:

Most Spanish speaking citizens were born here.

But most of those also speak English, unless they've led a very bizarre and
isolated existence.

A lot of their ancestors were here before Plymouth Rock.

A lot? How many?

That is why I think referring to them and
their language as 'foreign' seems so strange.

Why is there so much pressure to put things in Spanish, and so little to put
things in aboriginal American languages, such as Navajo?

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Sylvain writes:

Sylvain wrote:

very few natural born and US public school educated citizen
would be unable to pass that test.

you see, I even caught myself making an embarrassing error
in English :-) I meant: 'very few ... would be able...'
of course.

The English is correct. You simply didn't write what you intended (although
citizen should have an s on it, but that may be a typo).

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C J Campbell writes:

An interesting question, at that. How much money are we really talking about
here? They have some guy, probably, already on the payroll, or maybe even a
computer translator, that translates the site into Spanish. I bet it doesn't
cost all that much compared to their whole budget. They probably spend more
on wastebaskets every month.

It is also interesting to note that many translations into Spanish are
abysmal, since many Spanish speakers in the U.S. are incompetent in Spanish
and yet attempt to prepare translations.

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If the government supports Spanish translations, then everyone else will want their favorite language provided. Where do you draw the line?

Dunno. Depends how much it costs. Google seems to do well translating
nearly everything, and totally for free.

It is by any reasonable definition of foreign language. What definition are you using? And please provide a reference to the definition from a generally recognized and legitimate source. Not just your own home-grown definition.

That statement belies your lack of understanding of what English is. It
is not a language driven by authority, such as Spanish or French. Words
mean what people mean them to mean. It is quite evident in context what
each of us is saying.

What's your definition of a foreign language? (I don't need any
authoritative references).

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Matt Whiting writes:

Why, all real countries have ATC who are English capable. France
probably being an exception. :-)

I've heard that the nickname some people have for French ATC is the "kess kee
dee," because whenever someone tries to talk to French ATC in English, one can
hear the controller whispering to his colleage, "Qu'est-ce qu'il dit?" (which
means "What did he say?" although it's pronounced "kess kee dee").

When I flew into St. Petersburg, the Russian controller's English wasn't
great, but I could make out most of it. I think I understood it better
though than did the two German pilots of the Lufthansa Airbus in which I
was riding jump seat.

When one person is a foreign speaker with an accent and the other is a foreign
listener, errors are compounded. I suspect a lot is simply not understood,
and pilots and ATC just guess at what they've heard (and are lucky enough to
usually get it right). See Tenerife for an example of what can happen when
guessing doesn't work.

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ktbr wrote:

I don't believe it is any good for freedom either. It makes things more
complicated and increases the requirements for more government.

you probably think this way for having grown up in a mostly
unilingual society and cannot comprehend that things can work
just fine otherwise; I grew up in a country of fewer than 6 million
people; yet manages to have 4 national languages (3 of which have
official status, i.e., used for all official documents -- the
fourth, spoken by fewer than a few tens of thousands counts five
main dialects, and the main official language counts more dialects
than one might care to count, but I digress :-) -- and this, without
counting broken-english has its fifth neither national nor official
yet widely used language. Furthermore, it is one of the most cosmopolitan
country there is, with a very high proportion of (exotic languages
speaking) foreigners. And you know what? it has been working just fine
this way for longer than USA has been in existence. And there are quite
a few other countries like that with more than one official languages
actually. Surely if tiny countries can pull this off, USA might
have a shot at it too?

--Sylvain

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:54:36 -0800, Sylvain wrote:

ktbr wrote:

I don't believe it is any good for freedom either. It makes things more
complicated and increases the requirements for more government.

you probably think this way for having grown up in a mostly
unilingual society and cannot comprehend that things can work
just fine otherwise; I grew up in a country of fewer than 6 million
people; yet manages to have 4 national languages (3 of which have
official status, i.e., used for all official documents -- the
fourth, spoken by fewer than a few tens of thousands counts five
main dialects, and the main official language counts more dialects
than one might care to count, but I digress :-) -- and this, without
counting broken-english has its fifth neither national nor official
yet widely used language. Furthermore, it is one of the most cosmopolitan
country there is, with a very high proportion of (exotic languages
speaking) foreigners. And you know what? it has been working just fine
this way for longer than USA has been in existence. And there are quite
a few other countries like that with more than one official languages
actually. Surely if tiny countries can pull this off, USA might
have a shot at it too?

With a little tension, no? My primary flying instructor, from
Lausanne, had a few amusing anecdotes about having to speak German at
engineering school in Zurich. "Cracking Coke" (as in distilled coal)
was how he translated the francophone students' description of
conversing in German.

(His Karma was to spend most of his career working for Swissair, in
Zurich and to be married to a Dane.)

Don