MS Flight Sim As a Training Tool

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

What is your support for that blanket reply?

The same as yours: Because I said so.

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Gig 601XL Builder writes:

I agree but you never seem to respond to his posts.

So?

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Sensations are a HUGE part of flying.

Perhaps they are for you. They aren't necessarily that way for
everyone.

OK. I call for a vote.

Are sensations a HUGE part of flying:

Gig 601XL - yes
Steve Foley - yes
Anthony - no

anyone else?

Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

writes:

A simulator (with any Force Feedback system available at the local
computer store) is nowhere close to re-creating the forces excerted
on the controls by the atmosphere.

The feedback forces of the controls vary from one type of aircraft to
another, from one model of aircraft to another, and even from one tail
number to another. In fact, they even vary from time to time on a
single airframe after maintenance is performed, or with wear and tear.
So worrying excessively about a precise simulation of these forces in
a sim is unjustified.

The above are a number of absurd statements. The precise differences in
feedback forces between planes, models, tail numbers, etc. is not the
point; there is a *big* difference between having feedback forces and none
at all *or* of the force feedback controllers that one can find at the
local computer store.

Another example: If the pressure exerted by the yoke against your arms
varies between 9 and 11 lbs in a certain configuration on a certain
aircraft in a certain situation, there is no reason to insist that a
sim reproduce this pressure with a precision of 0.01 lbs. The
real-world variation is much greater than the sim's precision, so the
sim is "as real as it need get."

Another example of an absurdity. It is not a matter of "precision of 0.01
lbs.", because the average person wouldn't notice such a thing anyway.
Yet, there *is* a noticeable difference between MSFS w/force feedback
controller and a real plane. Go figure.

Neil

writes:

It's a simulator for this sake of this conversation... according to the
FAA it's a game.

Where does the FAA define a game?

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Gig 601XL Builder writes:

It's really hard to explain and it varies aircraft to aircraft in real life
but it seems like all the planes in MSFS do the same thing and even then it
isn't doing like it does in real life. I think the main thing is the visual
clues don't make up for the lack of feel where they do in other flight
profiles.

That really isn't specific enough to help, nor is it specific enough
to demonstrate that there really is an error in MSFS modeling with
respect to these flight situations.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Stalls and slow flight are the biggest I've noticed.

What are the differences between MSFS and real aircraft in the domains
of stalls and slow flight?

A lot. Take a flight to find out.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Sensations are a HUGE part of flying.

Perhaps they are for you. They aren't necessarily that way for
everyone.


Please find me one pilot that doesn't feel sensations are major factor in
flight feel free to have them to speak up.


Vision-
The average person has between 170 and 175 degrees of vision and uses it
all
in real flight.
In SIM flight depending on screen used you might have 90 degrees. Yes
this
can be improved but the cost is significant and I'd guess the vast
majority
of MSFS users don't have multiple monitors.

I have 360° in MSFS.


Not at one time and if you didn't know exactly whay I meant you are being
ignorant.


In real flight you feel the stick or yoke and the forces acting against
it.

That depends on the aircraft.


Yes it does but with the exception of F-B-W aircraft which neither I nor
most of the pilots in this group have ever flown it is a factor and it would
really surprise me if control forces are generated in most F-B-W aircraft
and if they are I'll bet they don't fell like force feedback systems
available for PCs



You also feel the aircraft moving and changing direction.

Unfortunately, you cannot always trust what you feel.


Which is why I wrote...

This movement when backed up with visual clues, either from outside the
plane or instruments help you finely control the aircraft.

Or, more specifically, the visual and instrument information allow you
to control the aircraft. The movement isn't always trustworthy.


The instruments aren't always trustworthy either.

In sim flight there are no forces acting on the stick/yoke with the
exception of springs or in the best case force feedback which doesn't
simulate reality well at all.

That depends on the aircraft being simulated. Cirrus aircraft use
springs, too.


But they are connected to the control surfaces

With a proper set up I'll give the sims a real A+ on this issue and will
say
that it is damn good a simulating reality.

Not that the drone of engines gradually driving you deaf is terribly
useful to flying.


That drone is the best sound in the world. What you don't want to hear is
uncommanded changes in that drone or worse yet no drone at all.

N2310D writes:

A lot. Take a flight to find out.

No. Explain the differences to me, if you can.

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Yes

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:L1kdh.5396$sM2.4463@trndny05...
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Sensations are a HUGE part of flying.

Perhaps they are for you. They aren't necessarily that way for
everyone.

OK. I call for a vote.

Are sensations a HUGE part of flying:

Gig 601XL - yes
Steve Foley - yes
Anthony - no

anyone else?