gun discharge in cockpit.

On Mar 28, 8:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

That depends on where and why you are stowing it.

Matt

Absolutely!

The thread was about you waking up and hearing someone breaking into
your house.

I think break-ins can leave you short on time, so locked and cocked
works for me.

I don't have a 1911, but other makes and designs that use a trigger
safety.

Jeff Cooper advocated Condition 1 whenever you carried (in his
opinion) the Only Pistol worth carrying -- a 1911.

Dan Mc

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:54:54 -0400, Roger
wrote:

Snip for brevity
They are long enough that it's more difficult to point them where you
don't want to, they are very effective and the shot stops in the first
or second wall instead of 3, 4, or 5 houses down the street.. Besides

Some one remarked about this statement and I can't find it now.
However I stand by it as phrased.

Except for concrete and/or brick veneer, the walls of a house consist
of a 3/8 or 1/2 piece of plaster board over studs on either 16" or
larger centers plus insulation. The outside wall is a layer of
insulation you could easily stick your fist through covered by either
wood or vinyl siding. Unless you hit one of the studs, a 9mm which is
noted for it's penetrating abilities can go through a lot of material
like that.

Like others I'd suggest the frangible hollow points. which *might*
make it to the first neighbors house.

As to the1" at 20 yards, I've shot a lot of handguns that couldn't do
that from a rest. As for me, guns aside, I've never been able to do
that with any hand gun.

between the tremendous noise and fantastic muzzle flash inside at
night should be good enough to discourage all but the most determined.
My own feelings are that If they are that determined you are still
better off with the 12Ga and probably in very deep doggie do.






Dan Mc
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mar 28, 8:15 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

No, central ... Tioga County. Erie is NW PA.

Oops... thought you said NW but I see I read wrong.

That's beautiful country -- and some good hunting and fishing!


Dan Mc

On Mar 29, 12:05 am, Roger wrote:

Some one remarked about this statement and I can't find it now.
However I stand by it as phrased.

Except for concrete and/or brick veneer, the walls of a house consist
of a 3/8 or 1/2 piece of plaster board over studs on either 16" or
larger centers plus insulation. The outside wall is a layer of
insulation you could easily stick your fist through covered by either
wood or vinyl siding. Unless you hit one of the studs, a 9mm which is
noted for it's penetrating abilities can go through a lot of material
like that.

You must have some mighty big heating bills.

Most newer balloon frame houses also have a layer of 1/2" to 3/4" OD
particle board on the exterior walls upon which to hang the siding.

Older houses (1960) used even more dense material.

And the only thing that makes a 9 mm round "penetrating" is a Full
Metal Jacket (FMJ). Use a modern hollow point (such as a Speer Gold
Dot) and I doubt a 9 mm will make it through an interior wall without
losing significant energy.

I think you have fallen prey to anti-gun rantings.

The fact is that the impact of a 9mm bullet --at muzzle velocity -- is
equal to a *one pound* weight dropped from a height of 5.96 feet
(achieving a velocity of 19.6 fps) or a ten pound weight dropped from
a height of 0.72 inches (yes, that's 3/4 of an inch!)

Sorry, but that's not a whole lot of power.

As I said before -- a handgun is what you use to fight your way to
your long gun.


Dan Mc

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 5:11 pm, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 05:01:52 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
The fact is MOST people who own handguns can't hit the side of a house
over 20 yards -- how do I know this? Spend a day at any range. And
those are the people actually practicing.

Is this house on this fictional firing range, is it 1 foot wide..or
less?

You are actually going to argue that "MOST people who own handguns"
can consistently group within 1' at 20 yards?


How did we go from the side of a house to a 1' group? Danny?

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:
On Mar 28, 6:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

And the 9mm isn't even a real gun! :-)

Matt

Here we go...

:-)

Actually, I'm downsizing the .40 to a 9mm -- I can shoot twice the
ammo for the price as a 45 and 40, can carry 15-16 rounds per mag, and
the guns are smaller and thus more readily concealed.


All Good things.


Dan Mc


Like a famous lawman once said, when I shoot a perp I don't just want to
make him mad, I want to take him down. I consider the .45 to be marginal
as a self-defense round, but my Super Blackhawk is a trifle unwieldy in
close quarters. :-)

However, if I were outside and the perps were hiding behind a car or such,
then I'd take the SA any day. Only 6 shots, but seldom are more needed if
every one does its job.


Give it up Matt. If this egghead is downsizing to a 9 from a 40 for self
defense, he is not even trainable.

"Dan" wrote in message
...

Blather snip

Therefore the shotgun is the absolute best choice for home defense --
point it at the bad guy, pull the trigger, cycle the action, and pull
again. If you don't him him follow the trail of poop to find him.

Though be sure the choke tubes are removed if you're using the gun for
home defense.

The short barrel's main advantage is that it prevents someone from
grabbing the barrel as you round a corner.


Do you have any clue how close the pattern is on a shotgun at 15'. In the
confines of the averaged size home, you might as well be shooting slugs.


As far as Gun clubs -- whew -- and you think GA is bad when it comes
to winning over new members?

I stopped by a local range/Gun Store near hear a while ago. The
counter guy about wet his pants trying to show off how much he knew.
When I asked him where he served (he was using all sorts of Military
jargon) he mumbled something about a knee injury...

Gun shops and clubs are infected with all the various types of
humanity the rest of us are, but they seem particularly prone to
attracting the know-it-all show off who lives for the moment he can
show up some "newbie."

Sounds just like you.



Shotgun pellets usually won't go very very through walls, but what
handgun are you shooting that will penetrate "3, 4, or 5 houses down
the street"?

A high powered rifle bullet might pass that far, but a handgun?


No ****, maybe you should actually try it sometime. Tell me, how does the
energy of a 00 pellet compare to a .32 automatic?



When the adrenalin is pumping, the nerves are standing on end, and
your fine motor skills are non existent it takes someone with skill
and experience for a handgun to become really useful (outside of luck)

Training, training, and more training. If you're not willing to invest
the time to attain and maintain proficiency, buy a shotgun.


Really bad advice.


After the fist shot indoors even with a 9mm most people are deaf,
their head/ears are ringing like church bells, you are moving in a
sort of haze and you feel like your head is under water. It is not
like firing on a range wearing hearing protection under calm
conditions.

I've shot in "fun houses" (Urban combat) plenty of times. Once you get
the adrenaline going and you get momentarily deafened by the first
shot, you're good to go. I never expereinced all the physiological
trauma you're talking about with a 9 mm.

Of coarse not, a 9 mm is not a real gun.

On Mar 29, 8:55 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

Give it up Matt. If this egghead is downsizing to a 9 from a 40 for self
defense, he is not even trainable.

You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

And I'll be more than happy to show you a 1" group at 20 yards. You'll
need to hold something while I do.


Dan Mc

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 12:05 am, Roger wrote:


And the only thing that makes a 9 mm round "penetrating" is a Full
Metal Jacket (FMJ). Use a modern hollow point (such as a Speer Gold
Dot) and I doubt a 9 mm will make it through an interior wall without
losing significant energy.

An interior wall? Two layers of sheetrock? You need some hands on
experience.


I think you have fallen prey to anti-gun rantings.

The fact is that the impact of a 9mm bullet --at muzzle velocity -- is
equal to a *one pound* weight dropped from a height of 5.96 feet
(achieving a velocity of 19.6 fps) or a ten pound weight dropped from
a height of 0.72 inches (yes, that's 3/4 of an inch!)

Sorry, but that's not a whole lot of power.

As I said before -- a handgun is what you use to fight your way to
your long gun.

You don't know much about gun fights either, do ya?

On Mar 29, 9:11 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

You don't know much about gun fights either, do ya?

I haven't read as many Soldier of Fortune articles as you, apparently.