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#151
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"SeeAndAvoid" wrote in message news "Tarver Engineering" wrote If you do like Campbell and claim there can be no compromise possible I can assue you that all you will do is elimninate small GA. ..and if the other side says there is NO compromise, which many of them do, then what? Then when the issue winds up in civil Court that fact will injure their case. I've dealt personally with these types, the ones that loved 9/11 because we couldnt fly. The ones that say no improvement to any traffic pattern is enough, only eliminating the airport and the airplanes will do, and glad to see a fatal accident take another airplane/pilot out of the equation - I'm not exagerating. Take a look again at http://pages.prodigy.net/rockaway/ACNewsmenu.htm this is the kind of nutcases we're talking about here. The original poster seems a rational man being harrassed by an individual pilot for the most part, but I agree that their are nutcases attacked to the noise issue. The guy who puts this craphole website together hates everything and everybody: pilots, controllers, politicians, aircraft manufacturers, and even some of his anti-aviation counterparts! These are the real problem, a lunatic fringe. Most of the neighbors I've dealt with are not like this, they're pretty hot at first, but not off the deep end like STN and this other clown. Like I said in a previous post, there is no dealing with some people, try as you may. Mullachy is catching on. "Paul Sengupta" wrote He said that the movement is making things worse for some people by concentrating the noise... I've seen it here, the politically connected (or they have something the city wants) almosts moves the downwind beyond glide range just to avoid a couple homes, and I do mean a couple - just to put us all over a crowded subdivision. That is a bad idea. |
#152
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"Mike Spera" wrote in message ... Yep, 06C it is. The procedure is voluntary, but, as I said, there are citizen "police" recording which based pilots don't play along. I usually try not to trigger the governmental immune system by not looking like a virus (low keyed, non confrontational). So, I play along. After all, if I fly a "normal" pattern out of RWY 11, I may broadside someone flying the "voluntary" procedure. I often wondered how much it would cost to move the two cronies. There is that swamp off to the south east. Gotta be cheaper than the loss of a life running this goofy pattern. Mike Dave Stadt wrote: Sounds like Schaumburg. The departure procedures to the east are absurd and dangerous. Ought to be a law against such nonsense. Far as I know the procedures are voluntary. "Mike Spera" wrote in message ... Interesting debate. I too have no use for old cranks who live near an airport and constantly complain about the noise. But, aerobatic practice boxes are not published anywhere. Not sure I can defend a "tough $*^!" attitude on the part of aerobatic jockeys. We have a similar problem. I have owned an airplane for over ten years. We live a couple of miles down the road from the airport. We could live closer, BUT we chose to live here because we did not want to put up with the noise. Now, 2 old cranks (hey, I'm over 50, I can say it) have harassed their village and the police enough that a "noise abatement" procedure was put in place. To avoid bothering these fine citizens (who bought homes right next to an airport that preceded their houses by 20 years), airplanes now must fly an extended 2.5 mile upwind to, you guessed it, my house. I have to draw the line here pardner. My house was here before THE PATTERN was moved. In addition, flying this non-standard, 2+ mile upwind is inherently DANGEROUS to those transients who are not aware of this absurd procedure. It puts aircraft dangerously close (2 miles) to O'Hare's innermost ring. The 2 crabbies also had touch and gos eliminated in this "procedure". They even have "airport volunteers" park their keesters at the airport with a handheld radio to record any "violators". Those N-numbers based at the airport are sent reminders if they violate this unsafe, voluntary procedure. For a time, they were even contemplating terminating the lease (hangar/tiedown) of repeat "violators". It appears the village attorney talked some sense into them and they dropped the threat. They have taken in over $10 million in federal funds and this type of action might attract the FAA into the fray. So, I can see the beef to some extent. At least move the box around so the same homes don't get pummeled forever. Flexibility won't kill you, but inflexibility might. Remember, you're in RANGE!!! Good Luck, Mike __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#153
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47N is one (#16 out of 32) of the airports I'll fly into this summer on my
4,500nm odyssey, of course theres no mention of any special procedures on my printed out AOPA kneeboard chart for the airport. Then again, so is BED (#12), where the pilots being sued are based. Hope during this trip I don't do something that is forbidden locally but not known beyond the local pilots. Nearly all the 'violations' at our airport are by pilots not based here, they have no knowledge of our voluntary noise abatement procedure. They still get a nastygram in the mail though. Chris "G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ... Dave Stadt wrote: The departure procedures to the east are absurd and dangerous. Ought to be a law against such nonsense. There's a complainer that lives off the western end of the runway at 47N. They initiated a procedure to try to placate her. Every aircraft was expected to make a 45 degree left turn about 100 yards from the end of the runway. About a year after that went into effect, a Cherokee stalled immediately after turning and pancaked into a golf course, killing both occupants. They're back to straight out departures now. George Patterson Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason. |
#154
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SeeAndAvoid wrote: 47N is one (#16 out of 32) of the airports I'll fly into this summer on my 4,500nm odyssey, of course theres no mention of any special procedures on my printed out AOPA kneeboard chart for the airport. AFAIK, there are no special procedures there now. John Price teaches there, though, and he can provide the most current info. George Patterson Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason. |
#155
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In article ,
Mike Spera wrote: Yep, 06C it is. The procedure is voluntary, but, as I said, there are citizen "police" recording which based pilots don't play along. I usually try not to trigger the governmental immune system by not looking like a virus (low keyed, non confrontational). So, I play along. After all, if I fly a "normal" pattern out of RWY 11, I may broadside someone flying the "voluntary" procedure. I often wondered how much it would cost to move the two cronies. Gotta be cheaper than the loss of a life running this goofy pattern. You are close enough to Chicago that Louie, Vito, Bruno or Guido should be able to come out and give you a hand! Mike Dave Stadt wrote: Sounds like Schaumburg. The departure procedures to the east are absurd and dangerous. Ought to be a law against such nonsense. Far as I know the procedures are voluntary. "Mike Spera" wrote in message ... Interesting debate. I too have no use for old cranks who live near an airport and constantly complain about the noise. But, aerobatic practice boxes are not published anywhere. Not sure I can defend a "tough $*^!" attitude on the part of aerobatic jockeys. We have a similar problem. I have owned an airplane for over ten years. We live a couple of miles down the road from the airport. We could live closer, BUT we chose to live here because we did not want to put up with the noise. Now, 2 old cranks (hey, I'm over 50, I can say it) have harassed their village and the police enough that a "noise abatement" procedure was put in place. To avoid bothering these fine citizens (who bought homes right next to an airport that preceded their houses by 20 years), airplanes now must fly an extended 2.5 mile upwind to, you guessed it, my house. I have to draw the line here pardner. My house was here before THE PATTERN was moved. In addition, flying this non-standard, 2+ mile upwind is inherently DANGEROUS to those transients who are not aware of this absurd procedure. It puts aircraft dangerously close (2 miles) to O'Hare's innermost ring. The 2 crabbies also had touch and gos eliminated in this "procedure". They even have "airport volunteers" park their keesters at the airport with a handheld radio to record any "violators". Those N-numbers based at the airport are sent reminders if they violate this unsafe, voluntary procedure. For a time, they were even contemplating terminating the lease (hangar/tiedown) of repeat "violators". It appears the village attorney talked some sense into them and they dropped the threat. They have taken in over $10 million in federal funds and this type of action might attract the FAA into the fray. So, I can see the beef to some extent. At least move the box around so the same homes don't get pummeled forever. Flexibility won't kill you, but inflexibility might. Remember, you're in RANGE!!! Good Luck, Mike __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source __________________________________________________ ____________________________ _ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#157
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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:05:21 +0100, "Paul Sengupta"
wrote: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:43:04 -0800, "C J Campbell" wrote in Message-Id: : Do you have such a technological solution? Noise limits on aircraft in Europe have shown that noise reduction is not only possible, but it can be a way of life. http://www.hliese.de/International/international.html The unfortunate thing is that if you import an aircraft fitted with one of these into the UK, you have to remove it as it's not approved by the CAA. Such is life. They have a UK dealer though! :-) Maybe some are getting approvals now. Mufflers for airplanes, or rather more efficient ones. Most of the planes I've flown made far more noise with the prop than the engine. If I still had the 2 blade prop I think I could put straight pipes on and you'd never know the difference. How much will it cost? Ummm... Less than a law suit? http://www.hliese.de/Preis-02/preis-02.htm Given the fact that most aerobatic aircraft are equipped with constant speed propellers, it would be interesting to note the reduction propeller noise generation during aerobatic maneuvers with the prop control less than firewalled. My POH states that aerobatics should be performed with the prop set to 2600 rpm. Red-line is 2700. It's a CS prop. Perhaps there are simple, inexpensive, compromise solutions that could be adopted without significant impact on performance. Spreading out the area used over a wider area so people under a practise area aren't affected all the time? The police helicopters nightly patrolling overhead in the '70s were so loud that they woke the slumber of those who they purported to protect. Now they are so silent, that they are no longer an issue. Well, they can still keep me awake! I've had a police helicopter hover near my house a few times looking for criminals in the playing fields opposite. It's a bit annoying when you're trying to watch TV. I don't mind so much as I'd rather they catch the criminals. Last time I just switched the TV off and turned my scanner on, scanning between the police frequency and the local airport frequency. A while back one of the elderly eresidents walked away from the county home (at night) which is about a half mile from here. I heard some noise and went out side to see a hellicopter just on the other side of the road. I beat a hasty path to the county cruiser on the corner (bout a 100 yards) and suggested they might want to put a spot light on my tower as it was sticking up a lot higher than the chopper was flying. He swung the light around and said, "wow" (top antennas are 130 feet). They left a car there with the spot on the tower while the chopper was in the area. Had he been 200 to 300 feet west of where he flew through he'd have ended up IN my living room. Even at that height I was able to watch TV, or listen to the stereo without having to turn the volume up. The new ones aren't nearly as loud as the old ones with the two blade rotors. How would raising the aerobatic box to a higher altitude impact its use? You'd be in the clouds? Paul Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#158
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Hope during this trip I don't do something that is forbidden locally but not known beyond the local pilots. I hope you'll report on this very subject, which is a whole lot more interesting than gallons pumped, hours flown, etc! I suspect that most airports have their peculiarities. At mine, for example, there's a nuclear plant to the SSE. The runway is 02/20 with the prevailing winds favoring a landing from the north. The ocean is on the east. Most of the locals fly all 45s from the west, using a midfield or lower crossover if we have to get on the downwind for 20. (Did I really write that paragraph? It seems very confusing to me, though the procedure is second nature all the best -- Dan Ford email: -- put Cubdriver in subject line! see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#159
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"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
... Dave Stadt wrote: The departure procedures to the east are absurd and dangerous. Ought to be a law against such nonsense. There's a complainer that lives off the western end of the runway at 47N. They initiated a procedure to try to placate her. Every aircraft was expected to make a 45 degree left turn about 100 yards from the end of the runway. About a year after that went into effect, a Cherokee stalled immediately after turning and pancaked into a golf course, killing both occupants. They're back to straight out departures now. Does the lady in question know the seriousness of what she initiated? Paul |
#160
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"S Green" wrote in message
... "Paul Sengupta" wrote in message ... I used to like watching that (IIRC) Pitts...usually from the top of the car park here in work. Anyway, after the letters, he went away. Not seen him/her since. Sigh. Diana Britten, the British aerobatic champion flies from Fairoaks, the local airport. I've never seen her practising aeros in this area. I would like to. :-) I have often seen someone aeros over Cantley Field near Wokingham. Mmm, could be, though that's quite close for Blackbushe, White Waltham, etc, there. Wokingham has a fairly low ceiling (airways out of Heathrow) though (Class A goes to the surface a few miles away over Bracknell). In which direction in Canfley field? Is that where you live? A friend of mine with a Bulldog at White Waltham lives in Wokingham. Ex-BA captain, retired a couple of years ago. My friends Jonathan and Susan got married at Le Manoir in Oxfordshire, the world famous chef Raymond Blanc's place. After the dinner we were out in the garden...we heard the varying noise of a plane doing aeros. We looked up and there was an Extra, fairly high, but nearly in the overhead, practising aeros. It was almost as if we'd planned it! (Susan's a pilot and Jon's been gliding in the past...in fact I took Jon up in my plane yesterday evening for a quick flight). Paul |
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