gun discharge in cockpit.

On 2008-03-29, Dan wrote:
You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation. Typically,
it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of 170 for .40 S&W.
I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of increase in power. To
me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between power and capacity.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 8:55 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

Give it up Matt. If this egghead is downsizing to a 9 from a 40 for self
defense, he is not even trainable.

You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.


Why, you clearly wouldn't "get it".

On Mar 29, 9:06 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

Training, training, and more training. If you're not willing to invest
the time to attain and maintain proficiency, buy a shotgun.

Really bad advice.

Obviously.

I'm sure you learned all you needed to during your 15 minutes reading
a magazine.



Of coarse not, a 9 mm is not a real gun.


You meant to spell "course."

Interesting that one definition of "Coarse" is "Of low, common, or
inferior quality."

How apropos.

Why don't you stand right here and I'll test a 9mm on you to see if
you are right?

Finally....

You typify the nonsense-spouting gun-shop wannabes who haven't ever
had to return fire. You are a complete idiot whose opinions on
everything are unadulterated mental diarrhea.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about flying and airplanes.


Dan Mc

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-29, Dan wrote:
You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation.
Typically,
it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of 170 for .40 S&W.
I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of increase in power.
To
me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between power and capacity.

My thoughts exactly. If I didn't have a close friend the keeps me in .45
reloads, I would carry .40s. But I have seen too many training films and
police reports of someone taking as many as 4 rounds "center mass" from a
9mm, and just keep charging, and that just doesn't happen with a 40 or 45.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 9:11 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

You don't know much about gun fights either, do ya?

I haven't read as many Soldier of Fortune articles as you, apparently.


No, it's because all your training is military, not civilian or law
enforcement.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 9:06 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

Training, training, and more training. If you're not willing to invest
the time to attain and maintain proficiency, buy a shotgun.

Really bad advice.

Obviously.

I'm sure you learned all you needed to during your 15 minutes reading
a magazine.



Of coarse not, a 9 mm is not a real gun.


You meant to spell "course."

Interesting that one definition of "Coarse" is "Of low, common, or
inferior quality."

How apropos.

Why don't you stand right here and I'll test a 9mm on you to see if
you are right?

Finally....

You typify the nonsense-spouting gun-shop wannabes who haven't ever
had to return fire. You are a complete idiot whose opinions on
everything are unadulterated mental diarrhea.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about flying and airplanes.



Sorry wanna be. I dont' train the clueless.

On Mar 29, 9:26 am, Jay Maynard
wrote:

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation. Typically,
it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of 170 for .40 S&W.
I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of increase in power. To
me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between power and capacity.

You are confusing "power" with "ability to stop an assailant."

If all we wanted was "power," a 20 lb sledgehammer swung rapidly would
do quite nicely.

But sledgehammers are hard to conceal, don't provide very quick follow
ups, and have a very limited range.

The IPSC is biased towards the .45, thus the "power factor"
requirement. That's fine -- they can set any parameters they want --
IPSC is a game -- but don't take that requirement as an absolute
definition of effectiveness.

It isn't.

Read the FBI report which argues this point quite well:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Sadly, the 9mm has proven its effectiveness on many, many occasions.
The V Tech shooter killed 32 people with a .22-caliber Walther P22 and
a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19.

What drove the FBI, DEA, ICE, SF, and other LE and Military
communities to bigger, faster cartridges was the requirement to shoot
through glass, car doors, etc and to take down perps high on PCP,
Meth, etc.

If those situations are in your mission profile, get something big and
fast.

But MOST civilians don't have this threat as part of their normal
lives.

Thus what really matters is your mission profile -- your own
capabilities, your exposure, your risks, your local jursidiction
requirements, etc.

Define that, THEN make your choice of weapon.


Dan Mc

On Mar 29, 9:32 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

My thoughts exactly. If I didn't have a close friend the keeps me in .45
reloads, I would carry .40s. But I have seen too many training films and
police reports of someone taking as many as 4 rounds "center mass" from a
9mm, and just keep charging, and that just doesn't happen with a 40 or 45

Now you've exposed yourself completely.

Idiot.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 9:26 am, Jay Maynard
wrote:


Bull**** snip


Read the FBI report which argues this point quite well:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Sadly, the 9mm has proven its effectiveness on many, many occasions.
The V Tech shooter killed 32 people with a .22-caliber Walther P22 and
a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19.


Oh yeah, I forgot the V-Tech shooting completely. Help me remember, what
were they shooting back?

What drove the FBI, DEA, ICE, SF, and other LE and Military
communities to bigger, faster cartridges was the requirement to shoot
through glass, car doors, etc and to take down perps high on PCP,
Meth, etc.

If those situations are in your mission profile, get something big and
fast.

Oh yeah, and we will never have to shoot dopers in self defense.


But MOST civilians don't have this threat as part of their normal
lives.

Yeah, if they are just shooting targets, they could use a 9mm or a Daisy.


Thus what really matters is your mission profile -- your own
capabilities, your exposure, your risks, your local jursidiction
requirements, etc.


No, what really matters is your medication. Now go take it.

On 2008-03-29, Dan wrote:
What drove the FBI, DEA, ICE, SF, and other LE and Military
communities to bigger, faster cartridges was the requirement to shoot
through glass, car doors, etc and to take down perps high on PCP,
Meth, etc.

If those situations are in your mission profile, get something big and
fast.

I spent 17 years in volunteer EMS. I dealt with plenty of folks high on
stuff, enough to last me a lifetime. I know what they're capable of. If I'm
trying to defend myself against the risks of a perp in my house, why would I
want to run the risk that he's going to be hopped up on something? Why make
that compromise?

The goal of using lethal force in self-defense is to end the attack. More
power is going to help that cause much more effectively than multiple
rounds. Yes, the "one-shot stop" is often a myth, but why handicap yourself?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)