Straight-ins at uncontrolled airports?

You are completely misinformed again.

On Feb 15, 9:27 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
John Theune writes:
You must have incredible vision to see the color of a pilots eyes from
more then 1/2 mile away. The upwind leg is on the opposite side of the
runway from the downwind at the same distance from the runway as the
downwind leg.

No, it is not. The upwind leg is aligned with the runway; it includes the
final and departure legs of the pattern (some people consider that it includes
only departure), and the runway itself. If you're on the upwind leg, you're
either landing or departing traffic, or you're about to collide with one of
these.

There is no leg on the opposite side of the runway. You're not supposed to be
on the opposite side of the runway. That's why patterns are designated left
or right.

An upwind join means that you are flying right into departing traffic.

You of course knew this because you had read about
traffic patterns and spend 30 seconds googling the term upwind traffic
pattern.

_Someone_ needs to read a bit more, that's for sure. At least I can't kill
anyone in a simulator.

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Tony writes:

You are completely misinformed again.

Show the error.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
John Theune writes:

You must have incredible vision to see the color of a pilots eyes from
more then 1/2 mile away. The upwind leg is on the opposite side of the
runway from the downwind at the same distance from the runway as the
downwind leg.

No, it is not. The upwind leg is aligned with the runway; it includes the
final and departure legs of the pattern (some people consider that it includes
only departure), and the runway itself. If you're on the upwind leg, you're
either landing or departing traffic, or you're about to collide with one of
these.

There is no leg on the opposite side of the runway. You're not supposed to be
on the opposite side of the runway. That's why patterns are designated left
or right.

An upwind join means that you are flying right into departing traffic.

You of course knew this because you had read about
traffic patterns and spend 30 seconds googling the term upwind traffic
pattern.

_Someone_ needs to read a bit more, that's for sure. At least I can't kill
anyone in a simulator.

What are your references for this information. Here are two that I just
dug off the net

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../57-38/Ch3.htm

EPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
HEADQUARTERS AND HEADQUARTERS COMPANY
1ST BATTALION (AIRBORNE, 507TH PARACHUTE INFANTRY REGIMENT
FORT BENNING, GEORGIA 31905

ATSH-TPP-HQ


071A0201

and Here's one you should really appreciate

http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/howto/glossary.htm

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
No, it is not. The upwind leg is aligned with the runway; it includes the
final and departure legs of the pattern (some people consider that it
includes
only departure), and the runway itself.
There is no leg on the opposite side of the runway. You're not supposed
to be
on the opposite side of the runway. That's why patterns are designated
left
or right.

_Someone_ needs to read a bit more, that's for sure. At least I can't
kill
anyone in a simulator.

A Circuit may be left or right of the pattern. The pattern itself is a
square (or rectangular) area surrounding the airfield with the runway
central to the pattern. Whilst a circuit is only half this area, the pattern
encompasses it all.
The pattern has 2 sides. a 'live' side, and a 'dead' side.
Crash Lander

John Theune writes:

What are your references for this information.

I googled for it.

However, after doing a search in all the FAA documents I have on hand, I found
_two_ definitions: one is a parallel course to the runway on the opposite side
of the downwind, and the other is the course over the runway itself, including
final and departure. The diagrams of traffic patterns in most of these
documents make no mention of an upwind leg.

So there does not appear to be a single definition for the term, unlike most
of the other terms referring to a traffic pattern.

One thing that is clear, whichever definition you prefer, is that you run an
excellent chance of running into someone if you enter the crosswind leg, be it
from a parallel upwind leg, or from the congruent upwind leg, or from anywhere
else that brings you across the runway centerline. I did find one page that
talked about an upwind entry into the crosswind, and it argued that if you are
at pattern altitude, you aren't likely to meet other traffic, but that seems
like an extraordinarily dangerous assumption given the variability of climb
rates, runway lengths, departure points on the runway, and so on. It's even
more dangerous if someone decides to go around.

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Not for real pilots.

It's been demonstrated again you are in error. You exhibit quite a
high noise to signal ratio.


On Feb 15, 10:07 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
John Theune writes:
What are your references for this information.

I googled for it.

However, after doing a search in all the FAA documents I have on hand, I found
_two_ definitions: one is a parallel course to the runway on the opposite side
of the downwind, and the other is the course over the runway itself, including
final and departure. The diagrams of traffic patterns in most of these
documents make no mention of an upwind leg.

So there does not appear to be a single definition for the term, unlike most
of the other terms referring to a traffic pattern.

One thing that is clear, whichever definition you prefer, is that you run an
excellent chance of running into someone if you enter the crosswind leg, be it
from a parallel upwind leg, or from the congruent upwind leg, or from anywhere
else that brings you across the runway centerline. I did find one page that
talked about an upwind entry into the crosswind, and it argued that if you are
at pattern altitude, you aren't likely to meet other traffic, but that seems
like an extraordinarily dangerous assumption given the variability of climb
rates, runway lengths, departure points on the runway, and so on. It's even
more dangerous if someone decides to go around.

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Crash Lander writes:

The pattern has 2 sides. a 'live' side, and a 'dead' side.

The terminology seems appropriate.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
I did find one page that
talked about an upwind entry into the crosswind, and it argued that if you
are
at pattern altitude, you aren't likely to meet other traffic, but that
seems
like an extraordinarily dangerous assumption given the variability of
climb
rates, runway lengths, departure points on the runway, and so on. It's
even
more dangerous if someone decides to go around.

Ever heard of a radio? If someone's going around, and you're close enough to
be in their way, then you're a) going to hear their calls on the radio,
and/or you're looking for traffic anyway.
Crash Lander

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Crash Lander writes:

The pattern has 2 sides. a 'live' side, and a 'dead' side.

The terminology seems appropriate.

Active and non-active. You know very well what I meant. Now you're just
being facetious.
Crash Lander

Crash Lander writes:

Ever heard of a radio?

Ever heard of NORDO? And even with radios, pilots aren't obligated to use
them.

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