Big Kahunas

just no war in which the US prevails.

In this "War on Terror" (idiotic concept to begin with) how are we ever going
to know when we've "prevailed"?

When there are no more suicidal zealots?

www.Rosspilot.com

Yep.

mike regish

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
news:ihatessppaamm-

Or that
just something that I want to see...

--
Bob Noel

Don

Was your father killed in a '51 landing at Miho, Japan, era 1948/1949?

Big John

On 07 Dec 2003 00:09:53 GMT, ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

----clip----

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 01:08:12 GMT Jeffrey Voight wrote:

My mom just forwarded this to me. It was a much more elegant account
than what my buddy-on-the-ground (works for Bremmer) sent me. I didn't
have an appropriate place to post it, so I chose the least inflamatory
recent post I could find in the thread.


And this sure isn't the appropriate place for it either.
It's amusing that he had to have secret service all over to protect him
from his "own" troops. The elated feeling is a common phenomenon by the way.
I can't remember the name for it, but in this case it was no doubt amplified.
Seeing something/someone that represents home when you're far from home and
in a dangerous place no less is intoxicating. It's a similar experience to
the ones ones that some have when attending some church services.


R. Hubbell


Jeff...

Some of you may appreciate this first hand account of Thanksgiving in
Iraq.....email...
Subject: First Hand Account of Thanksgiving 2003 We knew there
was a dinner planned with Ambassador Bremer and LTG Sanchez. There were
600 seats available and all the units in the division were tasked
with filling a few tables. Naturally, the 501st MI battalion got our
table.
Soldiers were grumbling about having to sit through another dog-and-pony
show, so we had to pick soldiers to attend. I chose not to go.
But, about 1500 the G2, LTC Devan, came up to me and with a smile,
asked me
to come to dinner with him, to meet him in his office at 1600 and bring a
camera. I didn't really care about getting a picture with Sanchez or
Bremer,
but when the division's senior intelligence officer asks you to go,
you go.
We were seated in the chow hall, fully decorated for Thanksgiving when
aaaaallllll kinds of secret service guys showed up. That was
my first clue, because Bremer's been here before and his personal
security detachment is not that big. Then BG Dempsey got up to speak,
and he
welcomed ambassador Bremer and LTG Sanchez. Bremer thanked us all and
pulled
out a piece of paper as if to give a speech. He mentioned that the
President
had given him this thanksgiving speech to give to the troops. He then
paused
and said that the senior man present should be the one to give it. He
then
looked at Sanchez, who just smiled. Bremer then said that we
should probably get someone more senior to read the
speech. Then, from behind the camouflage netting, the President of the
United States came around. The mess hall actually erupted with hollering.
Troops bounded to their feet with shocked smiles and just began cheering
with all their hearts. The building actually shook. It was just unreal. I
was absolutely stunned. Not only for the obvious, but also because I was
only two tables away from the podium. There he stood, less than
thirty feet
away from me! The cheering went on and on and on. Soldiers
were hollering, cheering, and a lot of them were crying. There was
not a dry eye at my table. When he stepped up to the cheering, I could
clearly see tears running down his cheeks. It was the most surreal moment
I've had in years. Not since my wedding and Aaron being born. Here
was this
man, our President, came all the way around the world, spending 17
hours on
an airplane and landing in the most dangerous airport in the world,
where a
plane was shot out of the sky not six days before. Just to
spend two hours with his troops. Only to get on a plane and spend
another 17 hours flying back. It was a great moment, and I will never
forget
it. He delivered his speech, which we all loved, when he looked right
at me
and held his eyes on me. Then he stepped down and was just mobbed by the
soldiers. He slowly worked his way all the way around the chow hall and
shook every last hand extended. Every soldier who wanted a photo with the
President got one. I made my way through the line, got dinner, then
wolfed
it down as he was still working the room. You could tell he
was really enjoying himself. It wasn't just a photo
opportunity. This man was actually enjoying himself! He worked his
way over
the course of about 90 minutes towards my side of the room. Meanwhile, I
took the opportunity to shake a few hands. I got a picture with
Ambassador
Bremer, Talabani (acting Iraqi president) and Achmed Chalabi (another
member
of the ruling council) and Condaleeza Rice, who was there with him.
I felt like I was drunk. He was getting closer to my table so I
went back
over to my seat. As he passed and posed for photos, he looked my in
the eye
and "How you doin', captain." I smiled and said "God bless you, sir." To
which he responded "I'm proud of what you do, captain." Then moved
on. Grace and Peace, Anthony P. Clark+
Church of the Holy Spirit
601 South Highland Avenue
Apopka, FL 32703
407.886.1740



Rosspilot wrote:
just no war in which the US prevails.


In this "War on Terror" (idiotic concept to begin with) how are we ever going
to know when we've "prevailed"?

When there are no more suicidal zealots?

www.Rosspilot.com

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 05:18:07 GMT Jeffrey Voight wrote:

You think presidents volunteer to have Secret Service? I rather think
that it's SOP. From his own troops? Don't be silly. Of course, from

He has a say in it but yes he will have some no matter what. It's an
interesting predicament to be visiting his/the/US troops and yet at the same
time have "aaaaallllll kinds of secret service guys" to protect you
from those same troops.


U.S. troops. We do have some weirdo's. From the general populace of
Iraq? Sure, why wouldn't he?


But the general population of Iraq wasn't allowed into the chow hall. I
wonder how many weapons were in that chow hall. That could be a tense
situation if the soldiers were carrying sidearms too.



I do get your point about the elation one feels about seeing and
experiencing things that remind them of home. I'm sure I felt it in
Somalia when boxes with Recees cups showed up (don't mail Recees cups to
hot zones. They make Recees soup.) I know I felt it when recent
periodicals would show up other places. I suppose I felt slightly
overwhelmed at the present of Mr. Clinton when he came to Fort Drum when
I worked in the HQ. It doesn't belittle that what Mr. Bush did raised
the morale of the troops.

I don't think anyone's belittling what he did. But to call it an act
of bravery is a stretch. Yes the troops enjoyed the visit but it was
an election year play. Plain and simple.




Maybe he could have done the same thing with a subscription to porn for
the troops, but it would have been out of character (although, probably
would have made for more significant morale).

Not sure about that. Maybe for some of them.


The religious aspect of the letter, I could have done without, but I am
very supportive of religious freedom, and it wasn't my place to modify
the letter in any way.


Sometimes people find religion while involved in harrowing circumstances.
No harm there.



Either way you slice it, the recognition of danger is certainly there.
The boost to morale of the troops is there. Looking at the title of
this thread, Big Kahunas, I dunno, it seems to provide evidence.

Evidence of what? You lost me there.


I do, however, think I'm done with this thread. I enjoyed a good
argument. The brief flamewar was kind of fun to read. I'm going back
to studying for my written.

Good luck with it.


R. Hubbell


Thanks, all.

Jeff...


R. Hubbell wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 01:08:12 GMT Jeffrey Voight wrote:


My mom just forwarded this to me. It was a much more elegant account
than what my buddy-on-the-ground (works for Bremmer) sent me. I didn't
have an appropriate place to post it, so I chose the least inflamatory
recent post I could find in the thread.



And this sure isn't the appropriate place for it either.
It's amusing that he had to have secret service all over to protect him
from his "own" troops. The elated feeling is a common phenomenon by the way.
I can't remember the name for it, but in this case it was no doubt amplified.
Seeing something/someone that represents home when you're far from home and
in a dangerous place no less is intoxicating. It's a similar experience to
the ones ones that some have when attending some church services.


R. Hubbell

aaaaallllll kinds of secret service guys showed
Jeff...

Some of you may appreciate this first hand account of Thanksgiving in
Iraq.....email...
Subject: First Hand Account of Thanksgiving 2003 We knew there
was a dinner planned with Ambassador Bremer and LTG Sanchez. There were
600 seats available and all the units in the division were tasked
with filling a few tables. Naturally, the 501st MI battalion got our
table.
Soldiers were grumbling about having to sit through another dog-and-pony
show, so we had to pick soldiers to attend. I chose not to go.
But, about 1500 the G2, LTC Devan, came up to me and with a smile,
asked me
to come to dinner with him, to meet him in his office at 1600 and bring a
camera. I didn't really care about getting a picture with Sanchez or
Bremer,
but when the division's senior intelligence officer asks you to go,
you go.
We were seated in the chow hall, fully decorated for Thanksgiving when
aaaaallllll kinds of secret service guys showed up. That was
my first clue, because Bremer's been here before and his personal
security detachment is not that big. Then BG Dempsey got up to speak,
and he
welcomed ambassador Bremer and LTG Sanchez. Bremer thanked us all and
pulled
out a piece of paper as if to give a speech. He mentioned that the
President
had given him this thanksgiving speech to give to the troops. He then
paused
and said that the senior man present should be the one to give it. He
then
looked at Sanchez, who just smiled. Bremer then said that we
should probably get someone more senior to read the
speech. Then, from behind the camouflage netting, the President of the
United States came around. The mess hall actually erupted with hollering.
Troops bounded to their feet with shocked smiles and just began cheering
with all their hearts. The building actually shook. It was just unreal. I
was absolutely stunned. Not only for the obvious, but also because I was
only two tables away from the podium. There he stood, less than
thirty feet
away from me! The cheering went on and on and on. Soldiers
were hollering, cheering, and a lot of them were crying. There was
not a dry eye at my table. When he stepped up to the cheering, I could
clearly see tears running down his cheeks. It was the most surreal moment
I've had in years. Not since my wedding and Aaron being born. Here
was this
man, our President, came all the way around the world, spending 17
hours on
an airplane and landing in the most dangerous airport in the world,
where a
plane was shot out of the sky not six days before. Just to
spend two hours with his troops. Only to get on a plane and spend
another 17 hours flying back. It was a great moment, and I will never
forget
it. He delivered his speech, which we all loved, when he looked right
at me
and held his eyes on me. Then he stepped down and was just mobbed by the
soldiers. He slowly worked his way all the way around the chow hall and
shook every last hand extended. Every soldier who wanted a photo with the
President got one. I made my way through the line, got dinner, then
wolfed
it down as he was still working the room. You could tell he
was really enjoying himself. It wasn't just a photo
opportunity. This man was actually enjoying himself! He worked his
way over
the course of about 90 minutes towards my side of the room. Meanwhile, I
took the opportunity to shake a few hands. I got a picture with
Ambassador
Bremer, Talabani (acting Iraqi president) and Achmed Chalabi (another
member
of the ruling council) and Condaleeza Rice, who was there with him.
I felt like I was drunk. He was getting closer to my table so I
went back
over to my seat. As he passed and posed for photos, he looked my in
the eye
and "How you doin', captain." I smiled and said "God bless you, sir." To
which he responded "I'm proud of what you do, captain." Then moved
on. Grace and Peace, Anthony P. Clark+
Church of the Holy Spirit
601 South Highland Avenue
Apopka, FL 32703
407.886.1740



Rosspilot wrote:

just no war in which the US prevails.


In this "War on Terror" (idiotic concept to begin with) how are we ever going
to know when we've "prevailed"?

When there are no more suicidal zealots?

www.Rosspilot.com

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 01:08:12 GMT, Jeffrey Voight wrote:

It was the most surreal moment
I've had in years. Not since my wedding and Aaron being born. Here
was this
man, our President, came all the way around the world, spending 17
hours on
an airplane and landing in the most dangerous airport in the world,
where a
plane was shot out of the sky not six days before.

the priorities are in their right order. When the time comes when I put
somebody outside my family above somebody from my family then I am really
in big troubles.

(and no, I can't understand how anybody can get wild and cheer and shout
only because of seeing an elected [read: doing my job] politician; and this
has nothing to do with Bush.)

(...)
As he passed and posed for photos, he looked my in
the eye
and "How you doin', captain." I smiled and said "God bless you, sir." To
which he responded "I'm proud of what you do, captain." Then moved
on. Grace and Peace, Anthony P. Clark+
Church of the Holy Spirit

at least the right mindset. :-)

#m
--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

In article ,
ospam (Rosspilot) writes:


just no war in which the US prevails.

In this "War on Terror" (idiotic concept to begin with) how are we ever going
to know when we've "prevailed"?

When there are no more suicidal zealots?


When the people in the countries who spawn the suicidal zealots understand that
harboring those who hate and intend violence against civilians is
counterproductive and police their own zealots.

Several middle eastern countries who formerly sheltered terrorists have already
come to that conclusion, but there are still a few to go.


Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article , Big John
writes:


Don

Was your father killed in a '51 landing at Miho, Japan, era 1948/1949?

Big John


Nope. My father was a radar bombardier in a B-24 flying out of India, and
later, Chunking, and survived the war. He never flew again after the war, and
died of natural causes before I got my certificate.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In this "War on Terror" (idiotic concept to begin with) how are we ever
going
to know when we've "prevailed"?

When there are no more suicidal zealots?

I think "victory", in this case, can only be defined as "waging war
elsewhere". In other words, as long as the War on Terror is NOT being
fought in this country, we win.

Thus, by that definition, we are winning.

As soon as there is another September 11th attack, however, we lose another
battle.

And so it shall go... :-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

(and no, I can't understand how anybody can get wild and cheer and shout
only because of seeing an elected [read: doing my job] politician; and
this
has nothing to do with Bush.)

It's an odd thing, I'll agree. In America, the President is supposed to be
"just another guy" -- but in reality, he's our King, our Leader, and, in
truth, the most powerful man in the world.

When he's around, the trappings and evidence of power are everywhere -- and
the thrill is quite palpable.

I guess there's just something about seeing a guy with the responsibility of
the world upon his shoulders that gives one pause.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"