Beware travelers with bratty kids

Judah wrote:
John Theune wrote in
news:kwnvh.2765$Hb6.1352@trndny02:

Judah wrote:
Roger wrote in
:

That is not an option. The parent can not take responsibility that
belongs to any of the flight crew. It is quite likely that some time
in the not too distant future even infants will have to be in an
approved seat restraint at take off and landing.
What documentation is a parent required to provide in order to fly a 2
year old on his lap?
No amount of documentation will change this. You can't fly with a 2
year old in your lap. Under 2 you can but 2 or older must be in a seat
with the seat belt fastened

I was under the impression it was 2 and under. The point being, what
documentation does a parent need to provide to prove the child is within the
age limit? Without documentation, how does a flight attendant who has no
first-hand experience dealing with children discern a 22 month old child from
a 28 month old child?

Presumably, the parent simply says the child is under 2, and the problem goes
away.
Upon request, you would have to produce a birth certificate or other
accepted proof of age ( passport or other government issued ID ) If you
cannot produce the documents then you buy a seat and put the child in
it. The FA does not have to judge, they just err on the side of caution
and it's up to the parent to document what they say. Don't you ever
watch Airline

In article ,
Judah wrote:

I was under the impression it was 2 and under.

It's "until the child has reached his second birthday." It's still a
monumentally stupid idea to try and hold a kid that young, but it's
legal for the moment. In severe turbulence or an accident, it will be
*impossible* to hold onto him without killing him.

The point being, what
documentation does a parent need to provide to prove the child is within the
age limit?

Many airlines require a birth certificate be presented to prove the
child is under 2. For example...

http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/infants.html
"A birth certificate is required to validate age of all infants under
age two."

Presumably, the parent simply says the child is under 2, and the problem goes
away.

Not likely.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 07:57:11 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
wrote:

Roger wrote:
That is not an option. The parent can not take responsibility that
belongs to any of the flight crew. It is quite likely that some time
in the not too distant future even infants will have to be in an
approved seat restraint at take off and landing.

they should be. Pax are not allowed to hold a small bag weighing 10
pounds but a parent holding a 35 pound 'meat missile' is completely
fine. I'm surprised the FAA and JAA has allowed this to go on this long.

IIRC It was planned or at least talked about strongly back when I was
doing a lot of traveling (91 through 97), but there was so much
opposition it was dropped. On-the-lap kid went free. Baby in a seat
restraint was charged. Airlines wouldn't give up the seats and
parents wouldn't pay. I don't remember what group was fighting it,
but the talk just sorta disappeared with no action.

Many, if not most parents who are not pilots have no comprehension of
the forces involved and believe they can hold their child under any
circumstances. They don't realize that at 10Gs which is well under
what they'd undergo in an impact, that 35# infant weights 350# and at
20Gs it's 700#. Sure they're gonna hold onto them.

I've been in a high G car crash. A 2 Oz radio control head smashed a
metal mount flat. It would have required a good size hammer if I
smashed it that flat. I survived AND *uninjured* only because of
airbags and the seat belt, shoulder harness combination. I Wasn't even
sore the next day but the inside of my forearms were discolored with
lots of little spots from when I wrapped the steering wheel around the
column. I stopped in 12 to 15 feet from 50 to 55 MPH. I wonder what
the blood pressure was at those points in my arms.



Gerald
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Sylvain" wrote

personally, I'd rather see all kids (say under 18), sedated, in
properly setup crates (water supply, very absorbant ground cover)
shipped in the cargo hold with other large pets.

I'm sure that this was written (I hope, at least) very much tongue in cheek,
based upon some children misbehaving on flights that you have been on.

The first flight my wife and I took our children on was at ages about 4 and
6, going to Disneyland. They were perfectly behaved on the whole flight. We
flew a time or two a year, throughout their young and teen years, enjoying
adventures as a close and loving family. I have never been embarrassed on a
flight, or in a restaurant with them.

Part, and I would say a large part, of the ability to pull off taking
children in public, is firm guidelines, rules and expectations as to what is
acceptable and unacceptable behavior while in public. This can be, and must
be, worked on by taking the children out often, and making sure that
expectations are met, with rewards and consequences for desirable and
undesirable behaviors. Small outings, working up to larger things like
airplane rides is the way to go.

I suspect that the child in this incident was used to getting her own way,
in most situations. It can't work that way. Results like this incident is
the likely outcome, if it does work that way.

We often would get compliments, sometimes from total strangers, on how they
behaved in long and difficult situations.

It wasn't an accident, when our children behaved as expected. It _is_ an
accident when some children behave.
--
Jim in NC