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#11
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Collings Foundation Bombers
In article ,
Jon A wrote: Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.? Well, a formation can have thousands of feet seperating the aircraft...depends on what you're doing. I know of two aircraft that were on parallel approaches and each pilot was violated for formation flight with passengers onboard. As it turned out after many dollars being spent, and much time it all went away. My definition doesn't matter...the FAA is the one you have to worry about. G -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#12
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Collings Foundation Bombers
Dale wrote:
/snip/ I know of two aircraft that were on parallel approaches and each pilot was violated for formation flight with passengers onboard. As it turned out after many dollars being spent, and much time it all went away. /snip/ Just curious, Dale. Did that happen here (ANC)? Happy Flying! Scott Skylane |
#13
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Collings Foundation Bombers
Bob Moore wrote:
Dale wrote While there was no reason for the guy to be snippy with you there are a lot of folks who slide up and fly formation with the bombers without talking to us before which raises a couple of issues. It is a violation to fly formation with paying passengers, it is a violation to conduct a formation flight without a pre-formation brief, and it's not comfortable or safe to have every tom, dick and harry that thinks he's a formation pilot coming up on your wing. How close do I have to be to be "flying in formation"? Yeah, I know.....FAA lawyers. Our language seems inadequate. During a glider tow you are flying in formation. So if you are getting instruction in the glider and the tow plane has a passenger, it must be illegal. |
#14
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Collings Foundation Bombers
In article ,
Scott Skylane wrote: Dale wrote: /snip/ I know of two aircraft that were on parallel approaches and each pilot was violated for formation flight with passengers onboard. As it turned out after many dollars being spent, and much time it all went away. /snip/ Just curious, Dale. Did that happen here (ANC)? No. It was back east, involved the B-24 and a Northwest 747. It was the 747 Captains last flight (and he also flies the B-17 and B-24), they worked it out with approach to get the -24 and the the 74- on final at the same time. Minneapolis-St Paul maybe...not sure. -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#15
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Collings Foundation Bombers
In article ,
Stubby wrote: Our language seems inadequate. During a glider tow you are flying in formation. So if you are getting instruction in the glider and the tow plane has a passenger, it must be illegal. hehe I hadn't thought of that one. I fly skydivers. We fly in formation all the time with other jump aircraft and have people on board paying to make the skydive. FAA decided they're not passengers since they are getting out, or something like that. -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#16
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Collings Foundation Bombers
Stubby wrote:
Bob Moore wrote: Dale wrote While there was no reason for the guy to be snippy with you there are a lot of folks who slide up and fly formation with the bombers without talking to us before which raises a couple of issues. It is a violation to fly formation with paying passengers, it is a violation to conduct a formation flight without a pre-formation brief, and it's not comfortable or safe to have every tom, dick and harry that thinks he's a formation pilot coming up on your wing. How close do I have to be to be "flying in formation"? Yeah, I know.....FAA lawyers. Our language seems inadequate. During a glider tow you are flying in formation. So if you are getting instruction in the glider and the tow plane has a passenger, it must be illegal. Gee, not if it is a club operation (not a commercial operation). Best regards, Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard -- Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/ C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 234 Young Eagles! |
#17
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Collings Foundation Bombers
Jon A wrote:
Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.? Air Force definition: "same course, same day". Best regards, Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard -- Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/ C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 234 Young Eagles! |
#18
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Collings Foundation Bombers
wrote:
Jon A wrote: Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.? Air Force definition: "same course, same day". OOPS... should be: Air Force definition: "same way, same day". Best regards, Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard Best regards, Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard -- Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/ C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 234 Young Eagles! |
#19
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Collings Foundation Bombers
SFO has parallel runways a couple of hundred feet apart. I've flown just off
the wing of several airliners into the Right, while they used the Left. Al "Jon A" wrote in message ... Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.? On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:48:43 -0800, Dale wrote: In article , Frank Stutzman wrote: Having done some minor bit of formation work, I will certainly agree with you that an unplanned formation is way comfortable (heck, I find a PLANNED formation a little unconfortable). However, I am unaware of any FARs covering your other statements. Can you refer me to the appropriate ones? 91.111 (b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by arrangment with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation. 91.111 (c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in formation flight. |
#20
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Collings Foundation Bombers
* Al :
SFO has parallel runways a couple of hundred feet apart. I've flown just off the wing of several airliners into the Right, while they used the Left. I guess you mean the ILS PRM approach for 28L/R? Regards, Daniel |
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