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#11
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Well if you are looking for an easy flying glider...you
can't go too far wrong with a Discus, it doesn't get the same rave reviews of handling like the LS4, but is still one of the nicest gliders I've ever flown and it is slightly newer without getting into the realm of Discus 2's, ASW28's and other really expensive modern German glass. Barn door airbrakes make field landings easy, decent enough wheelbrake, launches easy, docile stall, goes like the clappers and is forgiving of most indescretions in thermalling. At 13:06 10 September 2004, Waduino wrote: I'm still building my experience before buying a first glider, and from reading RAS over the past year or so, I've also concluded that an LS4 would be a great choice. Is there a newer model plane that people adore as much as an LS4 for its good balance of performance and behaviour? Thanks. Waduino. --- 'Jeff Runciman' wrote in message ... Thank you again for your advise. Any more thoughts on the LS4? Any concerns with the age? What should I pay for one? And are there any flying groups for the LS4? Thank you again and I hope I can contribute to the group as I go along. Jeff |
#12
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The wheel brake in my LS4 was also ineffective at first. Turns out all
I needed to do was a minor adjustment, and then you could put the glider on it's nose. Secondly, there is also the possibility of having the brakes modified (I believe by a motorcycle shop in California) that will make the drum brakes very effective. The LS4 was my first glider and a great one too. I couldn't have asked for better handling and docile stall characteristics. It's strong as hell, and the manually connected ailerons and spoilers were a snap. In fact it was easier and faster to assemble my LS4 than my second glider which was a Ventus that had automatic control hookups. You can't go wrong with a well cared for LS4. Stefan wrote in message ... Jeff Runciman wrote: Thank you again for your advise. Any more thoughts on the LS4? Any concerns with the age? The LS 4 is one of the most docile gliders I've ever flown. In some European clubs it's even used as first solo training glider! The age is no factor, the shape it's in is. Later LS4s have authomatic hook ups, early ones don't, this should be reflected in the price. The LS 4 has two negative points: One is the bad surface quality. Depending on the use, they need a refinish rather soon. (In a club environment after 15 years or so.) So take a careful look. The second is the wheel brake. The wheel brake is a joke. This can be a problem if you have to outland in a short field. Stefan |
#13
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"Waduino" wrote in message ... I'm still building my experience before buying a first glider, and from reading RAS over the past year or so, I've also concluded that an LS4 would be a great choice. Is there a newer model plane that people adore as much as an LS4 for its good balance of performance and behaviour? Thanks. Waduino. Yes!.....HpH Glasflugel 304C! newer...(new) nicer quality, better performance, all automatic control hook-ups, better brakes, hinged panel, nicer cockpit, and even nicer handling, etc etc etc tim |
#14
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Marc Ramsey wrote in message . com...
Make sure you check with the insurance companies (through the SSA program, or otherwise) before you buy anything. They have very specific experience requirements that will determine whether they will provide you with a policy at a reasonable price, and even whether they will insure you at all. One big factor is going to be the number of hours you have in over 35:1 gliders... Marc For the SSA plan the experience levels are set by flights in 35:1 or greater not hours. That can make a huge difference. I've just been through getting my inexperienced (flying that is) wife insured for my ASW 19b. Andy |
#15
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In fact it was easier and faster to assemble my LS4
than my second glider which was a Ventus that had automatic control hookups. Mr B.- RU positioning flaps in negative and being sure to lift up a little on the trailing edge as the wings go in? I time myself to make sure no lying here, and I can consistently rig by myself with a rigger in 30 minutes from trailer top up to tape finished. Once the first wing is in and positioned correctly...as long as one is careful with the second wing for the last 1'...I generally don't need help for the final push from the other wing. Some guys also teflon the fuse surface that the spar rubs on...but I find the key is proper alignment...and a rigger helps with this quite a bit. Also a nice flat asphalt surface. |
#16
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I bought an LS4a just a few weeks ago. The insurance company asked
about the number of flights in 35:1 or greater. They didn't seem as interested in hours. The question about hours did not reference l/d. The question about flights did. I had 99 flights in 35:1 or greater (total 103 flights). My hours were pretty low. Something like 20 hours pic. In talking to others, I think I have a pretty normal rate. For me there is very little conversion. The only thing to adjust to is a cg towhook. So far, that hasn't been an issue. The glider is easy to fly. Coordination is much easier than G102/103. I think now I can begin to shift some of my effort to what I want to do with the glider and away from the mechanics of flying. Tomorrow looks good for flight number 3. Wish me luck Doug Marc Ramsey wrote in message . com... Jeff Runciman wrote: Thank you again for your advise. Any more thoughts on the LS4? Any concerns with the age? What should I pay for one? And are there any flying groups for the LS4? Thank you again and I hope I can contribute to the group as I go along. Make sure you check with the insurance companies (through the SSA program, or otherwise) before you buy anything. They have very specific experience requirements that will determine whether they will provide you with a policy at a reasonable price, and even whether they will insure you at all. One big factor is going to be the number of hours you have in over 35:1 gliders... Marc |
#17
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Stefan wrote:
Higher premium because of low time in "anything" may make sense, but because of low time in over 35:1 certainly doesn't. If you consider that, here in the US, time in "under 35:1 gliders" often means Schweizer 2-33, it starts to make sense... Marc |
#18
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I've been flying an LS-4 for the past two years. Everything said about
it in this forum is true -- it's a great first glider, responsive, forgiving, with excellent thermalling and Xcountry qualities. There's also a very good owners forum on Yahoo with lots of people offering helpful advice: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/LS-gliders/ Negative points: Surface: Mine has some gelcoat degrading near the wing roots but I very much doubt if it affects performance much at all. I briefly considered refinishing (expensive) but then decided to live with it. Wheel brake: Admittedly not great, but there are ways to deal with it. Search for the brake discussion in the Yahoo forum. Tail wheel: A much more annoying problem in my estimation. In American versions of the LS-4, a wheel the size of an in-line skate wheel is mounted on a rubberized skid. DON'T ATTEMPT TO PUSH THE GLIDER BACKWARD WITHOUT THE TAIL DOLLY. The skate wheel will swivvel sideways causing all kinds of problems, the most serious of which is that the glider may run off the runway on tow unless the tail wheel is lined up carefully. I finally replaced the skate wheel with a decent sized tail wheel, and all the problems disappeared. Main wheel gas strut: When the gear is extended, it's locked in place by a gas strut. These struts weaken after a few years of use and must be replaced. Otherwise the gear may collapse on landing or (as mine did) on takeoff. By all means make this your first maintenance check if you buy an LS-4. The replacement strut is not particularly expensive, and it's a hellofalot cheaper than a belly job. Again, check the Yahoo forum for advice. Please don't be put off by these negative points. Every glider has its defects, but the LS-4 is a glider to love. |
#19
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Waduino wrote:
Is there a newer model plane that people adore as much as an LS4 for its good balance of performance and behaviour? LS 8 |
#20
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Jeff Runciman wrote:
Thank you again for your advise. Any more thoughts on the LS4? Any concerns with the age? What should I pay for one? And are there any flying groups for the LS4? Thank you again and I hope I can contribute to the group as I go along. Keep in mind that you are really talking about something different from the hang gliding idea. An LS-4 vs. a Russia is different in terms of landing out. Pulling something apart in a field or short strip somewhere and getting the trailer through the dirt with 300# vs 600# of glider is different. I always had a hand disassembling the PW-5, and maybe bought someone dinner for helping. With some gliders, a lot of people scatter, or you might need to buy them dinner subtle off color remark begins AND make them breakfast subtle off color remark ends. I'm going to go assemble a pegasus this weekend just to feel the wings. If you have a chance, before buying, disassemble the glider you are thinking of. Try a PW-5/AC-4or5/Sparrowhawk, then try the LS-4. Maybe it won't affect your decision, but it might get you to buy wingstands or a gym membership...:P -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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