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#11
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
"Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message
. .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#12
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. I really think that you should loosen up a bit. It is highly unlikely that anyone, apart from you maybe, has any problems with those who fly military aircraft in Canada being referred to as "air force" as a means of identification. Similarly, for those who serve in ground based, or sea based rôles there is no problem with references to "army" or "navy" in terms of their particular rôles. To quote a sombre note from the RCAF website: "The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act came into effect on 1 February 1968. With that, the identity of the RCAF, its records and its achievements, were laid to rest in the pages of Canadian aviation and military history." The same website, however, also confirms the right to an identity by stating: "In 1999 the Canadian Air Force celebrated its Diamond Jubilee after 75 years serving Canadians. With its current unified command structure, new programs, and new aircraft Canadians can be proud of their air force and look to the future with much optimism." Canada's armed services have a proud heritage and have made a disproportionate contribution to world security over a great many years, and an act of parliament, passed for whatever reason, seemed an attempt by some, it has been said, to dilute the spirit that made them great. It's interesting that this was driven through parliament by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and Defence Minister Paul Hellyer, both of whom seemed to court controversy. Indeed, the attempt to abandon service traditions was less than popular in some quarters as was the concept of one single uniform and rank structure throughout, hence the fact that it was not fully implemented across the board - personnel of Maritime Command, for example, maintained their naval rank designations. -- Moving things in still pictures! |
#13
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
Thank you for that walk in history, sir. That is all true . . . Was under
the flag inthose days too . . . Jacques "ŽiŠardo" wrote in message .uk... Andrew Chaplin wrote: "Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. I really think that you should loosen up a bit. It is highly unlikely that anyone, apart from you maybe, has any problems with those who fly military aircraft in Canada being referred to as "air force" as a means of identification. Similarly, for those who serve in ground based, or sea based rôles there is no problem with references to "army" or "navy" in terms of their particular rôles. To quote a sombre note from the RCAF website: "The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act came into effect on 1 February 1968. With that, the identity of the RCAF, its records and its achievements, were laid to rest in the pages of Canadian aviation and military history." The same website, however, also confirms the right to an identity by stating: "In 1999 the Canadian Air Force celebrated its Diamond Jubilee after 75 years serving Canadians. With its current unified command structure, new programs, and new aircraft Canadians can be proud of their air force and look to the future with much optimism." Canada's armed services have a proud heritage and have made a disproportionate contribution to world security over a great many years, and an act of parliament, passed for whatever reason, seemed an attempt by some, it has been said, to dilute the spirit that made them great. It's interesting that this was driven through parliament by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and Defence Minister Paul Hellyer, both of whom seemed to court controversy. Indeed, the attempt to abandon service traditions was less than popular in some quarters as was the concept of one single uniform and rank structure throughout, hence the fact that it was not fully implemented across the board - personnel of Maritime Command, for example, maintained their naval rank designations. -- Moving things in still pictures! |
#14
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
Part time soldier, eh? I know of which you speak. 30 Mile snipers, 30th
Field was. What was it you had? 2 batteries? (2 guns), WWII specials at that . . . Just teasing . . . Jacques "Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message ... "The Visitor" wrote in message ... Jacques & Laurie wrote: Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) Yep. My brother inlaw calls it the "Air Force". He is still in. It's an "air force" to be sure, just not the "Air Force". -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#15
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
"Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message
. .. Part time soldier, eh? I know of which you speak. 30 Mile snipers, 30th Field was. What was it you had? 2 batteries? (2 guns), WWII specials at that . . . Just teasing . . . May 73 to Dec 74, Pri Res; Jan 75 to Jan 96, Reg F; Jan 96 to May 2000, Pri Res. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#16
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
Jacques & Laurie wrote:
Thank you for that walk in history, sir. That is all true . . . Was under the flag inthose days too . . . Jacques "ŽiŠardo" wrote in message .uk... Andrew Chaplin wrote: "Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. I really think that you should loosen up a bit. It is highly unlikely that anyone, apart from you maybe, has any problems with those who fly military aircraft in Canada being referred to as "air force" as a means of identification. Similarly, for those who serve in ground based, or sea based rôles there is no problem with references to "army" or "navy" in terms of their particular rôles. To quote a sombre note from the RCAF website: "The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act came into effect on 1 February 1968. With that, the identity of the RCAF, its records and its achievements, were laid to rest in the pages of Canadian aviation and military history." The same website, however, also confirms the right to an identity by stating: "In 1999 the Canadian Air Force celebrated its Diamond Jubilee after 75 years serving Canadians. With its current unified command structure, new programs, and new aircraft Canadians can be proud of their air force and look to the future with much optimism." Canada's armed services have a proud heritage and have made a disproportionate contribution to world security over a great many years, and an act of parliament, passed for whatever reason, seemed an attempt by some, it has been said, to dilute the spirit that made them great. It's interesting that this was driven through parliament by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and Defence Minister Paul Hellyer, both of whom seemed to court controversy. Indeed, the attempt to abandon service traditions was less than popular in some quarters as was the concept of one single uniform and rank structure throughout, hence the fact that it was not fully implemented across the board - personnel of Maritime Command, for example, maintained their naval rank designations. -- Moving things in still pictures! Thanks Jacques, We disregard or abandon our heritage at our peril! ŽiŠardo -- Moving things in still pictures! |
#17
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
"ŽiŠardo" wrote in message
.uk... Andrew Chaplin wrote: "Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. I really think that you should loosen up a bit. It is highly unlikely that anyone, apart from you maybe, has any problems with those who fly military aircraft in Canada being referred to as "air force" as a means of identification. Similarly, for those who serve in ground based, or sea based rôles there is no problem with references to "army" or "navy" in terms of their particular rôles. To quote a sombre note from the RCAF website: "The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act came into effect on 1 February 1968. With that, the identity of the RCAF, its records and its achievements, were laid to rest in the pages of Canadian aviation and military history." The same website, however, also confirms the right to an identity by stating: "In 1999 the Canadian Air Force celebrated its Diamond Jubilee after 75 years serving Canadians. With its current unified command structure, new programs, and new aircraft Canadians can be proud of their air force and look to the future with much optimism." Canada's armed services have a proud heritage and have made a disproportionate contribution to world security over a great many years, and an act of parliament, passed for whatever reason, seemed an attempt by some, it has been said, to dilute the spirit that made them great. It's interesting that this was driven through parliament by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and Trudeau did not become prime minister until April 68, more than two months after the re-organization. The Act itself passed in the late spring of 67, AIRI. It was Lester Pearson's cabinet that drove it, and they did it in a minority Parliament, meaning they had broad support; it wasn't done on a whipped vote. Trudeau was largely indifferent to the CF (when he wasn't being mistrustful) and only voted on the changes as a member of cabinet and then in the House. Defence Minister Paul Hellyer, both of whom seemed to court controversy. Indeed, the attempt to abandon service traditions was less than popular in some quarters as was the concept of one single uniform and rank structure throughout, hence the fact that it was not fully implemented across the board - personnel of Maritime Command, for example, maintained their naval rank designations. Actually, the single rank structure was implemented across the board. It was one of the first aspects of unification dropped. The use of naval rank was tolerated unofficially and then formalized in the late '70s, IIRC. The use of former army ranks in the artillery, sappers and GGHG is still unofficial but tolerated. I have no problem with people referring collectively to Canada's military air fleet, the air crew, ground crew and support wallahs as "the air force." What I have a problem with is the turning of this collectivity into something distinct from the rest of the CF by use of "Air Force" as a proper noun. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#18
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. Ah yes, I remember Bag Town ... when I was with the 10th Mountain Division (ages ago), we went on maneuvers with some Canadian Army unit (can't recall but believe they were also mountain, snow troops). They ran us into the freeking ground on cross country ski exercises. They all must have been born on skis. Great bunch of guys, however and the NCO club at Bag Town Base was one rocking joint just like the one in Baden Baden, GE ... Oh Canada! Cheers, Dave |
#19
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. .. Andrew Chaplin wrote: "Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. Ah yes, I remember Bag Town ... when I was with the 10th Mountain Division (ages ago), we went on maneuvers with some Canadian Army unit (can't recall but believe they were also mountain, snow troops). They ran us into the freeking ground on cross country ski exercises. They all must have been born on skis. Great bunch of guys, however and the NCO club at Bag Town Base was one rocking joint just like the one in Baden Baden, GE ... Oh Canada! Are you sure that wasn't Canadian Forces Base Gagetown (AKA "Gag Town," "Gage-Nam" and "Camp Swamp-on-the-Hilltops")? There are not many ground manoeuvre areas around Bagotville, and the Combat Training Centre (our "Centre of Excrements") is in New Brunswick, along with the tac hel training mob. By necessity, all Canadian regular units in the field force are "snow troops." Winter warfare exercises are an annual qualification, usually done in late January when the weather is dependably cold. While we may train "off the reservation" in spring, summer and autumn, winter training is almost always done on DND land because it is too hard to clean up the brass and pyro afterward. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#20
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From CFB Baggotville, Quebec: IMG_0964mod001.jpg (1/1)
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message . .. Andrew Chaplin wrote: "Jacques & Laurie" wrote in message . .. Xcuse me! . . . Did you also know that CFB Bagotville was also referred to as "BAG Town"? I have come to know it as such because every service man that I knew in Canada called it as such. Endearing term, if you wish . . . As far as I was concerned, I served with the "Air Force" in Canada (1972-1977) even though WE all wore GREEN. Remember those days? Jacques (former corporal, CANADIAN AIR FORCE) I first joined a unit that is widely known in Ottawa and The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as the "Bytown Gunners," but widespread usage does not in any way make the name official. It is fine to use colloquialisms like "Air Force" in places where they will not confuse. You are, however, posting to an international forum where not everyone is au fait with the National Defence Re-organization Act, 1967, its disestablishment of the navy, army and air force as services in Canada, and its establishment of the single service with "forces" (regular, reserve and special) as the basis for managing personnel establishments. Ah yes, I remember Bag Town ... when I was with the 10th Mountain Division (ages ago), we went on maneuvers with some Canadian Army unit (can't recall but believe they were also mountain, snow troops). They ran us into the freeking ground on cross country ski exercises. They all must have been born on skis. Great bunch of guys, however and the NCO club at Bag Town Base was one rocking joint just like the one in Baden Baden, GE ... Oh Canada! Are you sure that wasn't Canadian Forces Base Gagetown (AKA "Gag Town," "Gage-Nam" and "Camp Swamp-on-the-Hilltops")? There are not many ground manoeuvre areas around Bagotville, and the Combat Training Centre (our "Centre of Excrements") is in New Brunswick, along with the tac hel training mob. By necessity, all Canadian regular units in the field force are "snow troops." Winter warfare exercises are an annual qualification, usually done in late January when the weather is dependably cold. While we may train "off the reservation" in spring, summer and autumn, winter training is almost always done on DND land because it is too hard to clean up the brass and pyro afterward. Well which base is right north of Fort Drum. seems to me we did a road march with vehicles and the border inspectors on the Canadian side remarked that the last time this has happened was the war of 1812 or something like that. Anyway, a great time was had by all, to be sure! Cheers, Dave |
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