Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

Tina wrote in news:874d408e-73e6-4064-8d08-
:

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but there is a nearly
universal cure if you find yourself uncomfortably out of a reasonable
approach condition -- simply say to yourself this isn't looking good
enough, go around, and do better the next time.

It's my uneducated opinion that too many perfectly good airplanes get
turned to scrap because pilots continue to commit to an action that
has become untenable. You have a hand on the throttle and it's
important to remember to be ready to push it in if you don't like the
way things are shaping up.

Absolutely.

Don't let ego get in the way of good judgement.

True again. Sometimes it's not ego, though. A lot of thigs come into play,
especially if conditions are tough. It's a curious thing, the sort of
single-mindedness that often accompanies an accident.


Bertie

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:46:16 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Tina wrote in news:874d408e-73e6-4064-8d08-
:

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but there is a nearly
universal cure if you find yourself uncomfortably out of a reasonable
approach condition -- simply say to yourself this isn't looking good
enough, go around, and do better the next time.

It's my uneducated opinion that too many perfectly good airplanes get
turned to scrap because pilots continue to commit to an action that
has become untenable. You have a hand on the throttle and it's
important to remember to be ready to push it in if you don't like the
way things are shaping up.

Absolutely.

Don't let ego get in the way of good judgement.

True again. Sometimes it's not ego, though. A lot of thigs come into play,
especially if conditions are tough. It's a curious thing, the sort of
single-mindedness that often accompanies an accident.

Bertie

Lesson here is go-around if concerned and make sure you are preset for that
option?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

WJRFlyBoy wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:46:16 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Tina wrote in news:874d408e-73e6-4064-8d08-
:

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but there is a nearly
universal cure if you find yourself uncomfortably out of a reasonable
approach condition -- simply say to yourself this isn't looking good
enough, go around, and do better the next time.

It's my uneducated opinion that too many perfectly good airplanes get
turned to scrap because pilots continue to commit to an action that
has become untenable. You have a hand on the throttle and it's
important to remember to be ready to push it in if you don't like the
way things are shaping up.
Absolutely.
Don't let ego get in the way of good judgement.
True again. Sometimes it's not ego, though. A lot of thigs come into play,
especially if conditions are tough. It's a curious thing, the sort of
single-mindedness that often accompanies an accident.

Bertie

Lesson here is go-around if concerned and make sure you are preset for that
option?

Well trained pilots will fly the approach treating it as a constantly
changing dynamic. They will be planning for the next anticipated action
based on all prevailing cues. Along with this they will have an
accompanying exit plan keyed by any expected parameter not being met by
any of these cues.
The go around trigger should occur if a critical parameter isn't met.
Each pilot will have a different trigger level based on various human
factors involving the pilot's training and his/her mental processing in
play on the approach.
This is the pedantic version of "If it don't look good, it usually ain't
no good......take it around!! :-))"


--
Dudley Henriques

WJRFlyBoy wrote in
:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:46:16 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Tina wrote in news:874d408e-73e6-4064-8d08-
:

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but there is a nearly
universal cure if you find yourself uncomfortably out of a
reasonable approach condition -- simply say to yourself this isn't
looking good enough, go around, and do better the next time.

It's my uneducated opinion that too many perfectly good airplanes
get turned to scrap because pilots continue to commit to an action
that has become untenable. You have a hand on the throttle and it's
important to remember to be ready to push it in if you don't like
the way things are shaping up.

Absolutely.

Don't let ego get in the way of good judgement.

True again. Sometimes it's not ego, though. A lot of thigs come into
play, especially if conditions are tough. It's a curious thing, the
sort of single-mindedness that often accompanies an accident.

Bertie

Lesson here is go-around if concerned and make sure you are preset for
that option?

Yeah. Should be, but we're only human. We have a two approach limit, too.
We're not allowed to do a third one ( company manual)
the number of accidents off a third approach is alarming.

Bertie

skym wrote:
Thanks for replies. I had meant to address the speed issue since I
knew the stall speed increased with bank. I also kept my speed higher
than normal in the turn because of that. I left it out of the
question, and shouldn't have. Assuming I keep the speed up, is the
centered ball a reliable guide?

A reliable guide for what? It's an indicator of coordination, which
is always a good idea. Your airplane flies more efficiently.

skym wrote:
Thanks for replies. I had meant to address the speed issue since I
knew the stall speed increased with bank. I also kept my speed higher
than normal in the turn because of that. I left it out of the
question, and shouldn't have. Assuming I keep the speed up, is the
centered ball a reliable guide?
Quit saying stall speed increases with bank. If you insist, add "in a
level turn"

On Mar 13, 5:21 pm, BillJ wrote:

Quit saying stall speed increases with bank. If you insist, add "in a
level turn"

But it will increase in descending or climbing turns, too.

Dan

wrote in message ...
On Mar 13, 5:21 pm, BillJ wrote:

Quit saying stall speed increases with bank. If you insist, add "in a
level turn"

But it will increase in descending or climbing turns, too.

Dan



It all depends on the 'G' the wing is feeling. Doesn't matter what direction the plane is 'headed'...

skym wrote:
While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

Ask your instructor to explain to you what happens to the stall speed in
a LEVEL turn as opposed to the stall speed in an unloaded gliding turn
from base to final.
This is a distinction you should definitely be aware of.

--
Dudley Henriques

In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

skym wrote:
While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

Ask your instructor to explain to you what happens to the stall speed in
a LEVEL turn as opposed to the stall speed in an unloaded gliding turn
from base to final.
This is a distinction you should definitely be aware of.

Dudley,

I'm not sure what you mean by "unloaded gliding turn". As long as your
descent rate is constant, the loading in a turn is exactly the same as it
is during level flight. A turn is only unloaded if your descent rate is
increasing, as it is during the second quadrant of a lazy eight. But, most
people don't fly their base-to-final turns like that; they fly them at a
(more or less) constant descent rate.

Either that, or I'm mis-understanding what you're trying to say.