light planes collide over Seattle?

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
150 went straight into an empty school

That's going to cost us.

Possibly. Especially when the evening news is putting up an aerial photo
and pointing out all the stuff in the photo that the 150 "narrowly missed".
Of course, they failed to point out that each object they circled was a very
tiny target in a vast area of non-targets. Even in a relatively congested
area where this accident happened, the odds of the 150 hitting a person were
remarkably small.

This was on the KIRO evening news, by the way. George commented that "that
reporter seems to know his or her stuff". Since he didn't refer to a
specific article, I don't know which reporter he's referring to; probably
Rick Price though, and yes...he's their "aviation correspondent" and does
have an above-average knowledge of things related to aviation.

But that doesn't stop the rest of their crew from stupid reporting. And
yes, I blame (at least in part) stupid reporting for some of general
aviation's woes.

Pete

I would guess that an FAA-employed controller would be in a better position
to answer that question than I am. I do know that ground operations at
Renton differ from what almost all student pilots are taught about
operations at a controlled airport.

Bob Gardner

"Dan Foster" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Gardner
wrote:

Tower-controlled airport, BTW. A contract tower, not an FAA tower.

I have to ask, just out of curiosity... does that make any particular
difference or is of any noteworthy mention, other than what agency
directly signs the employees' paychecks?

-Dan

Bob Gardner wrote:
I would guess that an FAA-employed controller would be in a better position
to answer that question than I am.


Makes no difference whatsoever.

Peter Duniho wrote:

George commented that "that
reporter seems to know his or her stuff".

Sorry. I meant this one.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/4813756/detail.html

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

The AP report is very sensible.

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting floatplanes
over Lake Sammamish. In this case the Cessna was in the pattern for Renton
and looking into the sun -- but the Beaver was in a separate pattern for
Wiley Post, the seaplane base off the north end of the Renton runway. Both
of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the tower should
have been watching out for both of them.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Oh yeah. We had 0.7 inches of rain in July, and none since the first of
August...the next week or ten days are forecast to be dry, too.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
ups.com...
Oh, Boy and this is rainy Seattle. Makes the M..gs closure look sounder
every day.
Uncle Bobby RIP.

And that was SPLAT into a SCHOOL BUILDING.

Polarized sunglasses anyone?

JG

Seth Masia wrote:

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting floatplanes
over Lake Sammamish. In this case the Cessna was in the pattern for Renton
and looking into the sun -- but the Beaver was in a separate pattern for
Wiley Post, the seaplane base off the north end of the Renton runway. Both
of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the tower should
have been watching out for both of them.

According to the TV link posted, both aircraft were talking to the tower.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Makes the M..gs closure look sounder
every day.


How? Why? Wait, don't bother.

Oh, and tell me again how many people in the school were hurt.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I do know that ground operations at
Renton differ from what almost all student pilots are taught about
operations at a controlled airport.

How so? I'm going to Renton in September.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
newscOIe.22$lT.15@trndny05...
Sorry. I meant this one.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/4813756/detail.html

Hmmm...well, the only KIRO reported identified by name is indeed Rick Price.
If it was his comments to which you referred, I'd have to agree.

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
The AP report is very sensible.

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting floatplanes
over Lake Sammamish.

Was it that recent? Wow...time flies.

In this case the Cessna was in the pattern for Renton and looking into the
sun -- but the Beaver was in a separate pattern for Wiley Post, the
seaplane base off the north end of the Renton runway.

For what it's worth, IMHO this was much more like a "multiple planes at a
point of congestion" (a towered airport, in this case) than it is like the
previous thread about planes around Lake Sammamish.

The towered airport specifically attracts planes to the same spot (even one
like Renton where there are two landing surfaces), while in the case of
operations over an urban lake like Sammamish, landplane traffic really ought
to be above 1000' above the lake (especially when the lake itself is
bordered by developed hills of 200-300'), while the seaplane traffic
operating at the lake is likely to be 1000' or below. And of course, over
an urban lake there is not nearly the same kind of predefined pattern that
would attract to airplanes specifically to the same spot as one would find
at an airport.

Both of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the tower
should have been watching out for both of them.

Both of those guys were talking to the tower (according to the news report),
and yes the tower should have been helping them avoid each other, but the
tower's primary responsibility is to control use of the runway, not the air
around the runway.

It sounds as though the sun might have been a factor, but I also wonder
whether either pilot had been paying attention to radio transmissions to or
from the other aircraft, for the purpose of developing a good sense of
awareness of other traffic in the vicinity. And of course, the sun should
only have been a factor for one of the pilots at most.

That said, reports as to what exactly happened are still conflicting. The
evening news was reporting that the 150 was flying perpendicular to the
flight path of the floatplane, while the web site's article appears to be
saying that the flight paths were nearly parallel, in the same direction.
It probably will be months (or a year) before the NTSB report comes out and
gives us anything close to accurate information as to what actually
happened.

Pete