C-150/180 tow plane?

On Oct 15, 1:19*pm, Tom Nau wrote:

My club uses a C-150 with a 180 hp conversion. *It tows very well at
1500 ft field elevation all summer long when temperatures reach 100 or
more. *It has a climb prop. *It has towed my single-seater with full
ballast at 1150 lbs. as well as the G103C with two on board and an
open class ship with full ballast. *I typically see 500fpm dry and
400fpm on tow with ballast. *It is easier to find qualified tow pilots
for a trike than a tail-dragger.

Just to add to what Tom has said, our A150L/180hp also has a STOL kit
and we changed out the Cessna tow hitch that was limited to 1200lbs
max tow weight to a TOST setup that is good to 1800lbs. We use a
180hp 172 as a backup towplane but it is a real dog compared to the
150 with an O-360.

Originally Posted by 150flivver

On Oct 15, 1:19*pm, Tom Nau wrote:

My club uses a C-150 with a 180 hp conversion. *It tows very well at
1500 ft field elevation all summer long when temperatures reach 100 or
more. *It has a climb prop. *It has towed my single-seater with full
ballast at 1150 lbs. as well as the G103C with two on board and an
open class ship with full ballast. *I typically see 500fpm dry and
400fpm on tow with ballast. *It is easier to find qualified tow pilots
for a trike than a tail-dragger.

Just to add to what Tom has said, our A150L/180hp also has a STOL kit
and we changed out the Cessna tow hitch that was limited to 1200lbs
max tow weight to a TOST setup that is good to 1800lbs. We use a
180hp 172 as a backup towplane but it is a real dog compared to the
150 with an O-360.

Hello,

At our commercial operation we have a 180hp 172 with STOL kit that we use for rides and instruction. I've been looking into the possibility of equipping it with a tow hook to use as a backup towplane (we use 2 L-19s).
We are at an elevation of about 600 feet MSL and we typically have 2,500 feet of runway in front of us during regular glider operations, although we have 3,600 feet total available.

Would the 180/172 work for us as a backup towplane for occasional use during contests, and during the winter?

Thanks
-Warren

On Oct 15, 4:46*am, macquistan wrote:
Hi,
*Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. The elevation is over 9000 Ft. I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

On Oct 15, 5:53*pm, Bernie wrote:
On Oct 15, 4:46*am, macquistan wrote:

Hi,
*Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. *The elevation is over 9000 Ft. *I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

At Parowan, UT they use a 150 with similar HP, not sure how much, and
a climb prop,and STOL kit, does just fine on every thing thrown at it.
at 6,200 and 100F regulary.

On Oct 16, 10:16*am, Free Flight 107 wrote:
On Oct 15, 5:53*pm, Bernie wrote:



On Oct 15, 4:46*am, macquistan wrote:

Hi,
*Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. *The elevation is over 9000 Ft. *I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

At Parowan, UT they use a 150 with similar HP, not sure how much, and
a climb prop,and STOL kit, does just fine on every thing thrown at it.
at 6,200 and 100F regulary.

Mmm depends on what "just fine" means. The Parawan Aero 150 is a
150hp. They also bring in the Telluride 150/180hp for towing. I think
they changed the prop on the 150/150 to improve things from when I
last towed behind it. Towing with water or a Duo or DG-1000S with two
people on board on a hot day out of Parowan being the 150/150 (at
least with the old prop) was not my idea of fun. I hear it is a bit
better with the new prop but still not something you want to do. For
our visits there we would manage to sometimes bring in a 285 hp Pawnee
or Cessna 182. After all many days there you want to ballast up all
the way... And it often is the 150/150 does service towing the lighter
ships on busy days. And Parowan Aero is a fantastic FBO and provides
great support to the glider community, but there is only so much you
can do with 150hp at high density altitudes.

Darryl

Keep in mind that the field elevation at Parowan is ~6K ft.

Mike Schumann

"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message
...
On Oct 16, 10:16 am, Free Flight 107 wrote:
On Oct 15, 5:53 pm, Bernie wrote:



On Oct 15, 4:46 am, macquistan wrote:

Hi,
Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. The elevation is over 9000 Ft. I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

At Parowan, UT they use a 150 with similar HP, not sure how much, and
a climb prop,and STOL kit, does just fine on every thing thrown at it.
at 6,200 and 100F regulary.

Mmm depends on what "just fine" means. The Parawan Aero 150 is a
150hp. They also bring in the Telluride 150/180hp for towing. I think
they changed the prop on the 150/150 to improve things from when I
last towed behind it. Towing with water or a Duo or DG-1000S with two
people on board on a hot day out of Parowan being the 150/150 (at
least with the old prop) was not my idea of fun. I hear it is a bit
better with the new prop but still not something you want to do. For
our visits there we would manage to sometimes bring in a 285 hp Pawnee
or Cessna 182. After all many days there you want to ballast up all
the way... And it often is the 150/150 does service towing the lighter
ships on busy days. And Parowan Aero is a fantastic FBO and provides
great support to the glider community, but there is only so much you
can do with 150hp at high density altitudes.

Darryl

On Oct 16, 4:16*pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions-
nospam.com wrote:
Keep in mind that the field elevation at Parowan is ~6K ft.

Mike Schumann

"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message

...
On Oct 16, 10:16 am, Free Flight 107 wrote:





On Oct 15, 5:53 pm, Bernie wrote:

On Oct 15, 4:46 am, macquistan wrote:

Hi,
Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. The elevation is over 9000 Ft. I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

At Parowan, UT they use a 150 with similar HP, not sure how much, and
a climb prop,and STOL kit, does just fine on every thing thrown at it.
at 6,200 and 100F regulary.

Mmm depends on what "just fine" means. The Parawan Aero 150 is a
150hp. They also bring in the Telluride 150/180hp for towing. I think
they changed the prop on the 150/150 to improve things from when I
last towed behind it. Towing with water or a Duo or DG-1000S with two
people on board on a hot day out of Parowan being the 150/150 (at
least with the old prop) was not my idea of fun. I hear it is a bit
better with the new prop but still not something you want to do. For
our visits there we would manage to sometimes bring in a 285 hp Pawnee
or Cessna 182. After all many days there you want to ballast up all
the way... And it often is the 150/150 does service towing the lighter
ships on busy days. And Parowan Aero is a fantastic FBO and provides
great support to the glider community, but there is only so much you
can do with 150hp at high density altitudes.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Willamette Valley club had a C182 for a couple years in the late
90's. I was the ship captain for a while and flew it often for
towing. It was fine as far as the saliplane pilots were concerned.
We had stripped out all the interior except the two front seats and
that kept it fairly light. It climbes well and hauled any of our
ships including a Lark IS28B. The club sold it after about two or
three years due to difficulties using it on a grass field with
"normally" trained power pilots.

The problem was two-fold:

To protect the nose-gear on the grass field, the pilot MUST do a good
soft-field landing. Too many times the pilot was unwilling to use a
technique that spared the stress on the nose strut and the resulting
forces on the firewall. We attempted to screen and train the pilots
but we always seemed to still have problems. It is a difficult skill
to maintain; properly done, you can't see over the nose on landing,
and the need for power on landing is contrary to most pilot's desire
to stop after touchdown.

The second problem was related, if you want to fly at the proper climb
speed for towing slower gliders you'll have a very nose-high attitude
that makes most pilots uncomfortable. Again you can't see over the
nose well and the ASI reads down in the botton of the green arc. We
towed with 10 degress of flaps so we were actually well above stall
speed and the ship was very light. No amount of discussion seemed to
convince most of the pilots that we were well within safe operational
limits.

The combination of these two issues diminished the "pool of pilots"
and we still had trouble finding tow pilots willing to fly the C182.

I really enjoyed towing with the C182 and would do it again without
hesitation, but the average pilot, trained in the usual Cessna
operations, seems to resist flying the aircraft in the manner we
desired. I think it would make a big difference to fly off a paved
runway for most pilots but the high nose attitude during the tow would
still need to be addressed.

If you can come up with a good training/procedure then it may still be
workable for your club.

Mike

I don't think I've ever seen 285HP on a Pawnee, 150, 235 and 260 are the
norm, plus we have an STC to bump our 235 to 25HP. Is there a similar STC
for the 260 to 285 conversion?

BT

"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message
...
On Oct 16, 10:16 am, Free Flight 107 wrote:
On Oct 15, 5:53 pm, Bernie wrote:



On Oct 15, 4:46 am, macquistan wrote:

Hi,
Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. The elevation is over 9000 Ft. I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

At Parowan, UT they use a 150 with similar HP, not sure how much, and
a climb prop,and STOL kit, does just fine on every thing thrown at it.
at 6,200 and 100F regulary.

Mmm depends on what "just fine" means. The Parawan Aero 150 is a
150hp. They also bring in the Telluride 150/180hp for towing. I think
they changed the prop on the 150/150 to improve things from when I
last towed behind it. Towing with water or a Duo or DG-1000S with two
people on board on a hot day out of Parowan being the 150/150 (at
least with the old prop) was not my idea of fun. I hear it is a bit
better with the new prop but still not something you want to do. For
our visits there we would manage to sometimes bring in a 285 hp Pawnee
or Cessna 182. After all many days there you want to ballast up all
the way... And it often is the 150/150 does service towing the lighter
ships on busy days. And Parowan Aero is a fantastic FBO and provides
great support to the glider community, but there is only so much you
can do with 150hp at high density altitudes.

Darryl

On Oct 16, 5:44*pm, "BT" wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen 285HP on a Pawnee, 150, 235 and 260 are the
norm, plus we have an STC to bump our 235 to 25HP. Is there a similar STC
for the 260 to 285 conversion?

BT

"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message

...
On Oct 16, 10:16 am, Free Flight 107 wrote:



On Oct 15, 5:53 pm, Bernie wrote:

On Oct 15, 4:46 am, macquistan wrote:

Hi,
Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

A fellow has been towing gliders of all sorts out of Telluride, CO for
years with a 180 horse C-150. The elevation is over 9000 Ft. I've
been towed behind him in an L-13 Blanik with two folks aboard.

At Parowan, UT they use a 150 with similar HP, not sure how much, and
a climb prop,and STOL kit, does just fine on every thing thrown at it.
at 6,200 and 100F regulary.

Mmm depends on what "just fine" means. The Parawan Aero 150 is a
150hp. They also bring in the Telluride 150/180hp for towing. I think
they changed the prop on the 150/150 to improve things from when I
last towed behind it. Towing with water or a Duo or DG-1000S with two
people on board on a hot day out of Parowan being the 150/150 (at
least with the old prop) was not my idea of fun. I hear it is a bit
better with the new prop but still not something you want to do. For
our visits there we would manage to sometimes bring in a 285 hp Pawnee
or Cessna 182. After all many days there you want to ballast up all
the way... And it often is the 150/150 does service towing the lighter
ships on busy days. And Parowan Aero is a fantastic FBO and provides
great support to the glider community, but there is only so much you
can do with 150hp at high density altitudes.

Darryl

I don't think I've ever seen a 285 hp either. That would make it a
Pawnee Brave. I had mean to type 235hp. Hey it was posted from an
iPhone...

Darryl

On Oct 15, 6:46*am, macquistan wrote:
Hi,
*Does anyone have experience using as a tow plane a C-150 with a 180hp
conversion? There is one on the market for a very good price. It has a
tow hook and a STOL kit already installed. Obviously, a Pawnee would
be the best choice. But, for 15-20K less, two seats and trike gear, it
seems a like a great opportunity. Currently, the local commercial
operator is using an old C-182. However, his plane isn't all that well
maintained. The plane would mainly be used for towing single place
ships without ballast, like my B4. The heaviest thing it would have to
tow is a L-13 or L-23.
Thanks much.

Field elevation is 50ft. Denisty altitude during the summer is
1500-1800ft. There is a 800 ft grassy area from which we operate that
abuts the end of a 5,000ft paved runway. We launch from the grass and
climb over the paved runway.