Frozen Flaps

On Dec 17, 8:40*am, "Terry" wrote:
"Robert Moore" wrote in message

5.247...



"Terry" wrote
I know my C150 will fly with 20 degrees of flap.
With 20 I can arrest the descent and climb out.

In fact Terry, FAR Part 23 requires that your aircraft and all of
the
Cessna 150/152/172 series be able to execute a go-around at the
maximum
flap setting at the maximum TOGW. This requirement is what actually
sets
the maximum TOGW for these aircraft.
Several years back, Cessna was able to raise the Maximum TOGW of the
C-
172 by 100 lbs by simply removing the 40 degree flap setting.

Section 23.77: Balked landing.
(a) Each normal, utility, and acrobatic category reciprocating
engine-
powered airplane at 6,000 pounds or less maximum weight must be able
to
maintain a steady gradient of climb at sea level of at least 3.3
percent
with-

(1) Takeoff power on each engine;

(2) The landing gear extended;

(3) The wing flaps in the landing position, except that if the flaps
may
safely be retracted in two seconds or less without loss of altitude
and
without sudden changes of angle of attack, they may be retracted;
and

(4) A climb speed equal to VREF, as defined in 23.73(a).

Bob Moore, ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)

Hi Bob

Your correct in every aspect. *I know what my airplane is capable of
at or near gross. I know that I can climb at 30 degrees of flaps but
not the 40 degrees that my C150 has. I was just trying to put some
general guidelines into winter flying with an underpowered 100hp
engine. *I don't know if a new student or experience pilot such as
yourself is reading this newsgroup. * *Have a nice Holiday Bob.

Terry N6401F

That full-flap go-around requirement is likely based on
standard conditions. 15°C and sea level. Don't try it on a warm day
here at 3000' ASL or you'll end up in the crops.

Dan

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:09:44 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 17, 8:40*am, "Terry" wrote:
"Robert Moore" wrote in message

5.247...



"Terry" wrote
I know my C150 will fly with 20 degrees of flap.
With 20 I can arrest the descent and climb out.

In fact Terry, FAR Part 23 requires that your aircraft and all of
the
Cessna 150/152/172 series be able to execute a go-around at the
maximum
flap setting at the maximum TOGW. This requirement is what actually
sets
the maximum TOGW for these aircraft.
Several years back, Cessna was able to raise the Maximum TOGW of the
C-
172 by 100 lbs by simply removing the 40 degree flap setting.

Section 23.77: Balked landing.
(a) Each normal, utility, and acrobatic category reciprocating
engine-
powered airplane at 6,000 pounds or less maximum weight must be able
to
maintain a steady gradient of climb at sea level of at least 3.3
percent
with-

(1) Takeoff power on each engine;

(2) The landing gear extended;

(3) The wing flaps in the landing position, except that if the flaps
may
safely be retracted in two seconds or less without loss of altitude
and
without sudden changes of angle of attack, they may be retracted;
and

(4) A climb speed equal to VREF, as defined in 23.73(a).

Bob Moore, ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)

Hi Bob

Your correct in every aspect. *I know what my airplane is capable of
at or near gross. I know that I can climb at 30 degrees of flaps but
not the 40 degrees that my C150 has. I was just trying to put some
general guidelines into winter flying with an underpowered 100hp
engine. *I don't know if a new student or experience pilot such as
yourself is reading this newsgroup. * *Have a nice Holiday Bob.

Terry N6401F

That full-flap go-around requirement is likely based on
standard conditions. 15°C and sea level.

It is.

Don't try it on a warm day here at 3000' ASL or you'll end up
in the crops.

Dan

In my case, the salty drink.

On Dec 17, 7:40 am, "Terry" wrote:
"Robert Moore" wrote in message

5.247...



"Terry" wrote
I know my C150 will fly with 20 degrees of flap.
With 20 I can arrest the descent and climb out.

In fact Terry, FAR Part 23 requires that your aircraft and all of
the
Cessna 150/152/172 series be able to execute a go-around at the
maximum
flap setting at the maximum TOGW. This requirement is what actually
sets
the maximum TOGW for these aircraft.
Several years back, Cessna was able to raise the Maximum TOGW of the
C-
172 by 100 lbs by simply removing the 40 degree flap setting.

Section 23.77: Balked landing.
(a) Each normal, utility, and acrobatic category reciprocating
engine-
powered airplane at 6,000 pounds or less maximum weight must be able
to
maintain a steady gradient of climb at sea level of at least 3.3
percent
with-

(1) Takeoff power on each engine;

(2) The landing gear extended;

(3) The wing flaps in the landing position, except that if the flaps
may
safely be retracted in two seconds or less without loss of altitude
and
without sudden changes of angle of attack, they may be retracted;
and

(4) A climb speed equal to VREF, as defined in 23.73(a).

Bob Moore, ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)

Hi Bob

Your correct in every aspect. I know what my airplane is capable of
at or near gross. I know that I can climb at 30 degrees of flaps but
not the 40 degrees that my C150 has. I was just trying to put some
general guidelines into winter flying with an underpowered 100hp
engine. I don't know if a new student or experience pilot such as
yourself is reading this newsgroup. Have a nice Holiday Bob.
Terry N6401F

I flew a Cessna 150 that had 40 deg flap, which was a hoot,
the 152 only had 30 deg flaps.
Though I've never had a flap problem I'll add that under some
weather conditions, a cold a/c decending into humid air will
frost up, I feel that could freeze the flaps.
Ken

On Dec 17, 1:05*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Dec 17, 7:40 am, "Terry" wrote:



"Robert Moore" wrote in message

85.247...

"Terry" wrote
I know my C150 will fly with 20 degrees of flap.
With 20 I can arrest the descent and climb out.

In fact Terry, FAR Part 23 requires that your aircraft and all of
the
Cessna 150/152/172 series be able to execute a go-around at the
maximum
flap setting at the maximum TOGW. This requirement is what actually
sets
the maximum TOGW for these aircraft.
Several years back, Cessna was able to raise the Maximum TOGW of the
C-
172 by 100 lbs by simply removing the 40 degree flap setting.

Section 23.77: Balked landing.
(a) Each normal, utility, and acrobatic category reciprocating
engine-
powered airplane at 6,000 pounds or less maximum weight must be able
to
maintain a steady gradient of climb at sea level of at least 3.3
percent
with-

(1) Takeoff power on each engine;

(2) The landing gear extended;

(3) The wing flaps in the landing position, except that if the flaps
may
safely be retracted in two seconds or less without loss of altitude
and
without sudden changes of angle of attack, they may be retracted;
and

(4) A climb speed equal to VREF, as defined in 23.73(a).

Bob Moore, ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)

Hi Bob

Your correct in every aspect. *I know what my airplane is capable of
at or near gross. I know that I can climb at 30 degrees of flaps but
not the 40 degrees that my C150 has. I was just trying to put some
general guidelines into winter flying with an underpowered 100hp
engine. *I don't know if a new student or experience pilot such as
yourself is reading this newsgroup. * *Have a nice Holiday Bob.
Terry N6401F

I flew a Cessna 150 that had 40 deg flap, which was a hoot,
the 152 only had 30 deg flaps.
Though I've never had a flap problem I'll add that under some
weather conditions, a cold a/c decending into humid air will
frost up, I feel that could freeze the flaps.
Ken

Frost is a phenomenon that forms only in still air. And it
wouldn't freeze the flaps. For frost to form, the aircraft surface
cools through radiative cooling to below the air temperature when the
dewpoint and temp are really close. When there's much wind the
aircraft surface is kept at air temp through convection. Some old
pilots used to burn off light frost just by taking off. That's now
illegal in Canada.

Ice, on the other hand, can form in flight but that flight has to
be into fog or cloud or rain consisting of supercooled water droplets,
which are below the freezing point but still liquid. Water can exist
as a liquid down to -20°C. The airplane's surface will be below
freezing because of the air temp, and any change in air temp will
change the very light aircraft structure's temperature quickly.

Dan

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:05:58 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

Ken caught trolling as Mark aka Marcus Aurelius

Mark(ie) on Mark(ie):

Retired aka lazy, bored and too stupid to do **** anymore - "I've since
moved on to guitars, turbojets, alternative energy, and Victory
gardens."~sci.physics

Obese - "I have my own weight issues" ~misc.news.internet.discuss

Troll/Forger - Admitted ~rec.aviation.piloting

Philosopher - "Most people live lives of quiet desperation."
~alt.support.depression.manic

BiPolar FukkNutzoid - "Its really less about how we got this way, and
more about who we're going to become." ~alt.support.depression.manic

Claims To Be Uber-Wealthy - "It's only $500,000 dollars..."
~misc.writing

Brilliance...In His Own Mind - "But what makes me a creative genius.."
~misc.writing

Founder of Art Academy - "Nor was it when I founded a school of the arts
in my name..." ~misc.writing

National Politician and Grand Entreprenuer - "convincing the chairman of
the bank and head of the Georgia Republican party to fly to Washington,
D.C. and within 3 days bring me a Small Business Admin.check for 350
thousand dollars." ~misc.writing

Loved By Celebrities - "Mark Who Was Invited By Elvis To Graceland"
~signature several newsgroups

****sman - "Some cute little brunette named Tammy steal her boyfriend's
car and credit cards and put me up on the 14th floor of the "Yachtsman"
for a week in Myrtle Beach, while spending thousands by day, and
smoking the sheets by night." ~misc.writing

Google Profile - "I am a Renaissance Man. I'm still attempting things
people think are impossible. I'm a dichotomy, a soft diamond, a
militaristic saint, and always a very wise fool."

--
Oh, the excitement!
http://tr.im/1f9b