Guns on fighters?

Lawrence- Some radars carried aboard fighters have the capability of ID-ing
an
enemy a/c simply from its radar-return. Hence it is considered safe to fire
from beyond visual range, which allows the avoidance of close-in
WWI-WWII-Korea dogfighting. BRBR

Sometimes...many friendly and foe A/C use the same engine, the basis of some
long range ID and it is not unusual for the good guys and bad guys to fly the
same A/C..Particularly after the fall of the Soviet Union...Flankers and
Fulcrums come to mind.

Nonetheless, most pilots desire to have some sort of reserve punch, just to
cover the odd case where missiles haven't done the job or have been
expended, and an opportunity to disengage successfully coud hinge on being
able to shoot your way out. BRBR

There hasn't been any actual swirling air battles for a while but if there is
another one, I don't think it will be an odd case at all..if the many v many
engagements I have seen in training is any indication...

Wandering around in a A-4, I was surprised how many really big fighters found
me in their rear view mirrors..
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

In article , SKSvilich
writes
All...I was wondering: have there been any guns-only air to air kills by US
aircraft since SE Asia?
As an aside, what are the thoughts of those who have been in combat? Are guns
on board nostalga, or, are they a practical weapon?

Sea Harriers over the Falklands made kills with their guns:

1x Pucara
2x A-4
1x A.109
1x C130 (hit by AIM 9L, finished off with the gun)

In addition one Puma was destroyed by the wake of a Sea Harrier.

It makes sense to stick at least one gun on to me.

--
John

"SKSvilich" wrote in message
...
All...I was wondering: have there been any guns-only air to air kills by
US
aircraft since SE Asia?
As an aside, what are the thoughts of those who have been in combat? Are
guns
on board nostalga, or, are they a practical weapon?

Thanks in advance.

Stefan
Humble Cessna Driver

.... maybe Israeli fighter jock(s) have scored with a gun but they are
tightlipped about their air ops.

lynn- The Navy fixed their error on the F-4J/S. BRBR

Error in the B,N,J,S-think he meant by having a gun in the Turkey and
Hornet...corrected the error in the USN F-4...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Ed- Although I've got more combat hours in the F-4 than the F-105, I've
got more time engaged with MiGs in the 105 than the F-4. BRBR

can't let that pass...anything you can tell us about Mig engagements in the
Thud??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

(Pechs1) wrote:

Ed- Although I've got more combat hours in the F-4 than the F-105, I've
got more time engaged with MiGs in the 105 than the F-4. BRBR

can't let that pass...anything you can tell us about Mig engagements in the
Thud??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

My "best" or possibly "worst" is described in When Thunder Rolled in
the chapter titled, "Of MiGs and Moustaches." You've got to buy the
book! There's also the description of my near rejoin one day on a
flight of three MiG-21s.

Seriously, anyone who went intentionally MiG hunting in a 105 was
judgementally flawed. Few folks had much in the way of air-to-air
training and the concepts that we take for granted today such as fluid
attack/loose deuce, energy manueverability, Ps management, etc. were
not understood very well and definitely not practiced. What A/A
experience we had was usually illegally boot-legged in unbriefed
hassles flown in the farthest reaches of the training area.

In the 105 we always had the gun, of course, but only seldom did we
carry AIM-9s and even then it was the AIM-9B which had a 2.5G firing
limit.

The good news was that if you flew your airplane properly, you
wouldn't always win, but you would never lose. That meant keeping your
airspeed up above your corner--for the 105 that was above about 480
KIAS. If you stayed that fast you had good turning capability. Anyone
in a MiG-17 couldn't keep up and in a -21 had a bigger turn radius.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

Ed- My "best" or possibly "worst" is described in When Thunder Rolled in
the chapter titled, "Of MiGs and Moustaches." You've got to buy the
book! There's also the description of my near rejoin one day on a
flight of three MiG-21s. BRBR

I will this WE-thanks-


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer