revised FAA Order 5190.6B

cavelamb writes:

This came in by email this evening.
Anybody heard anything about it?

Sounds like an alphabet aviation group trying to scare its members for
more dollars. The federal bogeyman has replaced the commies under the
bed and the monsters in the closet.
--
I could dance with you till the cows come home, on second thought I'll
dance with the cows till you come home.
Groucho Marx

In article ,
Bug Dout wrote:

cavelamb writes:

This came in by email this evening.
Anybody heard anything about it?

Sounds like an alphabet aviation group trying to scare its members for
more dollars. The federal bogeyman has replaced the commies under the
bed and the monsters in the closet.

The threat on through-the-fence operations is quite serious! The new reg
attempts to do away with taxiway access from off-airport property
residences and businesses. There are some airports that have adjacent
hangar homes or businesses that have airport access and are in danger of
having their access denied.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

"

The threat on through-the-fence operations is quite serious! The new reg
attempts to do away with taxiway access from off-airport property
residences and businesses. There are some airports that have adjacent
hangar homes or businesses that have airport access and are in danger of
having their access denied.



When shopping for an airpark home we looked at Independence Oregon which is
a county owned airport with homes adjacent to the airport.

I'm real glad we wound up on a private airpark and don't have to worry about
a gate being shut and locked.

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com

In article ,
"Tri-Pacer" wrote:

"

The threat on through-the-fence operations is quite serious! The new reg
attempts to do away with taxiway access from off-airport property
residences and businesses. There are some airports that have adjacent
hangar homes or businesses that have airport access and are in danger of
having their access denied.



When shopping for an airpark home we looked at Independence Oregon which is
a county owned airport with homes adjacent to the airport.

I'm real glad we wound up on a private airpark and don't have to worry about
a gate being shut and locked.

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com

I concur. Eleven years ago, I retired and wanted to move to an airpark
with a hangar home. I bought the books and found it easy to separate the
wheat from the chaff.

One requirement was that the homeowners' Assn. own the airport. We
settled on Spruce Creek and have never been sorry.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
Bug Dout wrote:

cavelamb writes:

This came in by email this evening.
Anybody heard anything about it?
Sounds like an alphabet aviation group trying to scare its members for
more dollars. The federal bogeyman has replaced the commies under the
bed and the monsters in the closet.

The threat on through-the-fence operations is quite serious! The new reg
attempts to do away with taxiway access from off-airport property
residences and businesses. There are some airports that have adjacent
hangar homes or businesses that have airport access and are in danger of
having their access denied.


I concur...I read that section very close.

Another section I found interesting (if I read it correctly as I breezed
through it)...storing cars, lumber, etc. in a hangar is an
"inconsistent" use of land on airport property...

Scott

Another section I found interesting (if I read it correctly as I breezed
through it)...storing cars, lumber, etc. in a hangar is an
"inconsistent" use of land on airport property...

Scott

Now THAT is good news. My local GA airport has a 5 year waiting list
for $500/Mo T-hangars. 75% of them are full of old cars and boats.
If the hangar lessee's are forced to clear out their junk, it means
more room for airplanes - possibly at a lower price.

"bildan" wrote in message
...

Another section I found interesting (if I read it correctly as I breezed
through it)...storing cars, lumber, etc. in a hangar is an
"inconsistent" use of land on airport property...

Scott

Now THAT is good news. My local GA airport has a 5 year waiting list
for $500/Mo T-hangars. 75% of them are full of old cars and boats.
If the hangar lessee's are forced to clear out their junk, it means
more room for airplanes - possibly at a lower price.

This is a real ongoing debate, and on the surface it's easy to be on both
sides of it.

However, the current and growing interpretation seems to be that you can not
have other personal property, in addition to your aircraft, in your
hangar--and that is just plain unreasonable!

Therefore, I have to come down on the side opposing this rule--as well as
opposing the denials of TTF access.

Peter

Scott writes:

Another section I found interesting (if I read it correctly as I
breezed through it)...storing cars, lumber, etc. in a hangar is an
"inconsistent" use of land on airport property...

If the non-airplane junk means an airplane cannot be hangared,
great. I'm fed up with the classic cars, boats, and businesses being run
from airport hangars.
--
Today it is fashionable to talk about the poor. Unfortunately, it is
not fashionable to talk with them.
~ Mother Teresa

Strange that it targets trailerable LSA aircraft. I can only wonder
where they are coming from with this rule. What about trailerable
non-LSA's? Such as the folding wing Thorp T-18, or Midget Mustang II?
Did they escape the wrath of this new rule? It seems they are going
after anyone that figures out a way not to have to
pay-through-the-nose to some airport. I've been thinking of building
or buying a folding wing Midget Mustang II for just that purpose, to
get out of never ending hanger rent, plus it would be nice to have my
plane at home. It would make just about any location an "airpark". In
cities where hangers are unobtainable, due to long waiting lists, and
some places where even tie down space is not available, a trailerable
aircraft would be great. The feds must have some type of security
angle worrying about this issue. Plus, they must be trying to protect
the income flow of FBO's, who I'm sure have been lobbying for some of
these new rules behind the scenes quietly. I'm sure most if not all of
these new rules are the result of lobbying that has been done behind
the scenes by those seeking to increase their income at all of our
expenses. I'm not surprised they issued the new rule with no comment
period, they knew they were up to no good and figured the only way
they could pass this nonsense is without a comment period.
The one thing I support is getting the use of hangers for storing
items that aren't aircraft. It's one thing to have a couch, workbench
and other support items for an aircraft inside a hanger. But in cities
with where hanger space is very limited, and where there are hangers
filled with non aircraft items. That I hope they stop.


On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:02:08 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

This came in by email this evening.
Anybody heard anything about it?
R



Under new FAA rules, general aviation is about to undergo massive changes, none
for the good, apparently.

The FAA Airports Division issued a revised FAA Order 5190.6B, Airport Compliance
Manual recently, that, as EAA described it, caught "just about every one off guard."

Not only that it went from 94 to 691 pages of new rules and regulations, and it
makes major changes that will affect several aspects of general aviation. Here
are some of the more controversial ones:

1) No more autofuel may be used in aircraft.
2) Light Sport Aircraft that can be trailered, and owners/operators of
recreational aircraft such as powered parachutes, weight-shift- control and
gyroplanes will be denied access to airports.
3) Permanent or long-term living quarters on airports, part-time or secondary
residences, and developments known as residential hangars, hangar homes,
campgrounds, fly-in communities and airpark developments - even when collocated
with an aviation hangar or aeronautical facility, will not be permitted on
publically funded airports.
4) The new manual failed to clarify the issue of providing reduced fair-market
hangar rent for not-for-profit 501c(3) tax-exempt EAA chapters, whose community
activities provide positive tangible benefits to their airports.

AUTO GAS
The item banning auto gas, EAA said, will affect 100,000+ airplanes that use car
gas in their engines under FAA STC's.

"Autofuel was not recognized as an authorized aviation fuel, nor does it suggest
that airports take actions to install self-service, ethanol-free premium grade
autogas pumps to support the 100,000+ aircraft that use autogas as their
primary, FAA-approved aviation fuel," the EAA noted.

"EAA has successfully worked with the FAA Airports Division for several years in
resolving this issue," the organization said.

TRAILERABLE AIRCRAFT BAN
The banning of trailerable Light Sport Aircraft, powered parachutes,
weight-shift- control and gyroplanes was recognized as an activity not permitted
because of the FAA's through-the- fence (TTF) prohibitions, EAA said.

With the on-going development of special light-sport aircraft as recreational
aircraft, including the roadable aircraft, this issue needed to be resolved, but
wasn't, EAA said. It would seem to mean the new Terrafugia flying car wouldn't
be allowed to drive on the airport and fly off the runway.

AIRPORT PROPERTY
The FAA's regulation saying it considers permanent or long-term living quarters
on airport, part-time or secondary residences, and developments known as
residential hangars, hangar homes, campgrounds, fly-in communities and airpark
developments incompatible - when collocated with an aviation hangar or
aeronautical facility - may be one of the biggest changes of all.

There re dozens, perhaps hundreds, of such fly-in communities around the
country, most associated with publicly funded (meaning FAA money) airports.

The two leading general aviation organizations, EAA and AOPA, are examining the
new manual for areas that need to be improved or clarified, an EAA spokesman said.

"They will then work with the FAA Airports Division to address the problem
areas," the pilots' group said. When we put questions to EAA about their
response to the new regulations, this is the answer we got:
Live-In Airparks

"As for residential airparks and the like, the early answer is: depends.
Residential airparks on private airfields, or public airports that do not
receive FAA funding, are not affected by the policy.

"If it's a local public airport that receives FAA improvement funds, though,
such residential developments would be affected. Whether existing developments
are grandfathered in the policy is still a gray area.

"Many of the current arrangements are also under local jurisdiction and review
whether or not the FAA policy had changed. As it appears now, aircraft
parking/camping at aviation events such as Oshkosh is not covered by the new policy.
Camping

"The term 'campgrounds' indicates a permanently based campground at an airport
instead of a temporary parking situation, which one finds at Oshkosh and other
fly-ins." Permanent campgrounds on airports seemingly are banned.

Asked if there specific concerns, the EAA's public relations said definitely.

"Yes. In addition, one of EAA's biggest objections is that the FAA policy was
issued without public comment, and it did change the long-standing policy of
permitting residential uses after evaluating the use, the economic return to the
airport, and the management of unauthorized airport access/security issues. It
was, in effect, establishing a rule by policy without proper public comment and
input."

However, he cautioned, "let's not run screaming off the bridge quite yet. This
is why EAA is asking for feedback from pilots and people in through-the- fence
situations, so there is solid background and evidence to present to FAA."

I've been reading the new order, and in some ways it's not so bad. I
did pick up on the fact the FAA is protecting the right of an aircraft
owner to self-fuel and do his own maintenance. It also says an
aircraft that is stored off-airport, be it in adjacent land or where
ever, gets caught by that same through the fence quagmire. They feel
it's a security issue. But if the person pays a tied down fee, then
it's not so bad. I could live with that, tie down fees are usually a
lot less than hanger rents. What I'm seeing as detrimental more than
anything, started before this new order came out, and that is the
rampant spreading of "ramp fees" all over the country. Florida has a
high number of airports doing this, but now I see it spreading to more
out of the way airports. Eventully, just about anywhere we fly, once
we exit the runway, here comes someone with their hand out asking for
money. That makes me not want to fly anywhere but my own airport.
I check Airnav and call ahead anywhere I go nowdays, so I'm not
unpleasantly surprised. One of the wost small airports is Naples, FL.
Major ripoff.