??VF-162-1967 VN combat cruise

Two were definitely doing it to save their skins. Their secret came out when
one showed up in the Navy reserves as a Squadron XO (??????) and the other a
couple of years after that in the Air National Guard that was doing their
active duty on a joint base. Another one was questionable, but everyone
liked him so I guess he got the benefit of doubt. Also there were several in
the attack community that I heard about but don't have first hand knowledge
of.

--
Red



"Elmshoot" wrote in message
...
Red,
Great post!
Having a taste of flying in hostile air in DS I think the feelings must be
the
same across time. Combat was a defining point in my life. very glad I did
it
but not something I want to do again. I didn't quite understand the quote
below
are you saying they left for the political disagreements with the US
policy in
SEA or to save their skin.?

The accounts I got from friends about wings being turned in, was that it
definitely wasn't because he was scared or a coward. This was not the
case
of several others (none in VF-162) that managed to leave the Navy,
"because
they owed it to their families, to have a career with the airlines".

I was told that one CO from another squadron on another boat stood up on
the
eve of DS and said that he was destined to lead men into combat! I would
have
slugged him if I had been there. Knowing the guy I can belive he said it.

Sparky

"Red Rider" wrote in message . com...
Two were definitely doing it to save their skins. Their secret came out when
one showed up in the Navy reserves as a Squadron XO (??????) and the other a
couple of years after that in the Air National Guard that was doing their
active duty on a joint base. Another one was questionable, but everyone
liked him so I guess he got the benefit of doubt. Also there were several in
the attack community that I heard about but don't have first hand knowledge
of.

--
Red


I listened disgust to an A-4 driver (Cdr.) in Newport in the summer of
'67 talk about how he was NOT going to make a WestPac and get his ass
shot off. He didn't and later was a CO and CAG while deploying
exclusively to the MED. This jackass eventually made Rear
Admiral...Name started with an S

"sid" wrote in message
om...
"Red Rider" wrote in message
. com...
Two were definitely doing it to save their skins. Their secret came out
when
one showed up in the Navy reserves as a Squadron XO (??????) and the
other a
couple of years after that in the Air National Guard that was doing
their
active duty on a joint base. Another one was questionable, but everyone
liked him so I guess he got the benefit of doubt. Also there were
several in
the attack community that I heard about but don't have first hand
knowledge
of.

--
Red


I listened disgust to an A-4 driver (Cdr.) in Newport in the summer of
'67 talk about how he was NOT going to make a WestPac and get his ass
shot off. He didn't and later was a CO and CAG while deploying
exclusively to the MED. This jackass eventually made Rear
Admiral...Name started with an S

Yep, that's a fact. But he shouldn't be confused with some that didn't make
the WastPac tour. There were a few that didn't try to avoid WestPac and were
never sent there. (I know of one that had special knowledge of classified
material that was never deployed outside of CONUS in his last 17 years of
service). But other than that, in my humble experience, if someone
volunteered, you better have your bags packed.

One guy made a statement one evening at Happy Hour, how he would like to go
over there and show them how to do things. He claimed that one week later he
had orders. He said he didn't know his new detailer was listening.

--
Red

Red Rider wrote as follows regarding the officers of
VF-162 portrayed in Zalin Grant's book "Over the Beach":

I guess I had met and knew all of them, before they made their first cruise
on the big "O". They were a good group of very skilled fighter pilots. Real
good, I had flown with many of them in the early 60's and flew a lot of
hours against all of them during their pre-deployment work-up.

[Remainder of superb post deleted to conserve bandwidth.]

Occasionally I get fed up with the cross-posted bilge, the racist nonsense
and the endless posts about the Liberty and I stop reading this newsgroup
for a time. But then somebody like Red comes along and posts something
that's so amazingly interesting that I wonder why I ever left. A big Bravo
Zulu for him, and for everybody else who has contributed to this thread.

"Red Rider" wrote:

Fascinating stuff, RR, thanks.

The accounts I got from friends about wings being turned in, was that it
definitely wasn't because he was scared or a coward. This was not the case
of several others (none in VF-162) that managed to leave the Navy, "because
they owed it to their families, to have a career with the airlines".


Actually Grant is scrupulously clear about this in the book.
The officer who turned in his wings had a record of bravery under fire
on some nasty missions. The CO recognised that in fact, and his
resignation was specifically on religious CO status, if I recall the
book correctly. Even so, apparently quite a ruckus.

The approach used by Zalin Grant in writing "Over the Beach" can be read w/
Robert Wilcox's "Black Aces High" 2002 book -- the story of VF-41 using their
aged F-14As as bombers during the brief 1999 NATO war w/ Serbia.

The method used by both authors have pluses and minuses in telling a story as
it relates to post-WWII CV NavAir, but clearly both are worth reading.

Anyone who has read "Black Aces High", and know any of the VF-41 participants,
care to comment on the job Wilcox did in representing what the squadron went
thru?

MW

Accchhhh! m'wee bairns...I'll give y'warp factor eight and maybe a wee
bit more...

Mike Weeks... step forward laddie... have y'tried bull****ting the
people on this thread by pretending t'be a "jet fighter pilot" like
Kevin Brooks caught you bull****ting aboot the same thing... tsk!
tsk!.. m'wee bairn...the "self esteem" problems that cause you to go
swaggering aboot like a "jet jock"...



MIKE WEEKS, USS LIBERTY USS LIBERTY MURDERS ISRAEL AHRON JAY CRISTOL
A. JAY CRISTOL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL GOI IDF THE LIBERTY INCIDENT
ASSAULT ON THE LIBERTY JIM ENNES JAMES ENNES JAMES A. ENNES JOE
MEADORS WAR CRIME stan engel shipfixr dn roberta hatch sheldon
lieberman little_people Ward Boston Admiral Thomas Moorer Robert
McNamara LBJ 30mm with proximity fusing 30mm cannon with
proximity fusing 30mm cannon shell with proximity fusing


kevin brooks said this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...g.goog le.com

"No idea, but a good point. Heck, I am still waiting for ol' Mikey to
tell me of his vast experience in dealing with "arrogant jet jockeys",
since he made such a big deal of it. Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications"."

Bwaaaaahaaa! LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

C'mon mikey... tell an old scot your qualifications, laddie!

Acccch!!! M'wee bairns… I'll give y'warp factor eight and maybe a wee
bit more…

The following message has been designed to prevent Mike Weeks from
engaging in conduct on this thread THAT HE has engaged in on the
threads where the USS Liberty survivors gather….

….and to follow Zionist Mike Weeks, who got caught by Kevin Brooks
pretending on the Google Groups pretending to be a US Naval "jet
fighter pilot"...

…just like Week's good buddy, A. Jay Cristol(Ahron Jay Cristol),
author of "The Liberty Incident" has BEEN CAUGHT pretending to be a
"jet fighter pilot" who "flew combat missions in the Far East" during
the Korean War and who served as an officer in US Naval Intelligence
when in reality…

…Mike Weeks is IN ACTUALITY … a US Naval reservist…and "no";he's not
the "jet fighter pilot" he got caught pretending to be ….. he is
"computer operator" AND…

"the Korean War… snicker…heroooo",A. Jay Cristol never came within
thousands of miles of any combat… and he graduated from "flight
training school" only 90 days before the Korean War ended before he
sat his fat little rump down in the cockpit seat …not of his
...snicker… "jet fighter"… but instead a "Turkey Prop".. the US Navy's
slowest plane… and "no"… he never served in US Naval Intelligence
unless perhaps it was in the kitchen of the mess halls peeling
potatoes as punishment for bull****ting about his "war record"




Mike Weeks, who ALONG WITH HIS BUDDY, A. Jay Cristol, is actively
involved in helping the Government of Israel cover up the murder of 34
of his fellow countrymen…

In the following messages on this thread, you'll be able to determine
for yourself to just what extent, if any, Mike Weeks is a traitor to
both his country and fellow computer oper… er.. fellow servicemen in
the US Military
…

…but first to give you a snapshot of just what kind of individual it
is who ends up betraying his fellow Americans…. We'll repeat the "self
esteem" problems Mike Weeks has which cause him to pretend to be a
"jet fighter pilot" as Wing Commander of "The Data Entry Squadron"…


Hey, Mikey…. M'wee bairn… point oot t'the ladies the hyperlink Kevin
Brooks is talking aboot where he caught you bull****ting aboot being a
"jet fighter pilot"…

kevin brooks said this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...g.goog le.com

"No idea, but a good point. Heck, I am still waiting for ol' Mikey to
tell me of his vast experience in dealing with "arrogant jet jockeys",
since he made such a big deal of it. Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications"."



Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications".


Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications".


Heck, I am still waiting for ol' Mikey to
tell me of his vast experience in dealing with "arrogant jet jockeys",
since he made such a big deal of it.
since he made such a big deal of it.
since he made such a big deal of it.



Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications".


since he made such a big deal of it.








ojunk (Mike Weeks) wrote in message ...
The approach used by Zalin Grant in writing "Over the Beach" can be read w/
Robert Wilcox's "Black Aces High" 2002 book -- the story of VF-41 using their
aged F-14As as bombers during the brief 1999 NATO war w/ Serbia.

The method used by both authors have pluses and minuses in telling a story as
it relates to post-WWII CV NavAir, but clearly both are worth reading.

Anyone who has read "Black Aces High", and know any of the VF-41 participants,
care to comment on the job Wilcox did in representing what the squadron went
thru?

MW

Rookies all.
1963-1984
Was there
Have T shirt
to prove it.
P3's in Thailand
in 1964.
Black Birds in
66-72.
USN Ret