A-6 Radar Display?

Was the A6F/A-6A "first of its kind" with a digital bombing system? I
bombed from A3D-2/A-3B bombers, ours had the Norden electro-mechanical
analog computer with ASB-1A bombing system radar. I heard, but never
saw, that the 147xxx buno A-3B's, all delivered to Whidbey heavy attack
squadrons, had a digital ASB-7 bombing system. The ASB-1A system had a
1,200' margin of error, all who were inducted into the HATWINGONE "Bulls
Eye Club" were said to be victims of this error tolerance.
Does anyone here know of the ASB-7 systems? I don't know how long they
stayed in operation as bombers, the East coast VAH squadrons were
transitioning to the Vigilante starting 1961, the West coast A-3's seem
to have transitioned to KA-3B's and EKA-3B'shortly thereafter so this
all digital ASB-7 probably did little bombing.
Joel McEachen VAH-5

Mike Kanze wrote:
Nick, I've loaned out my copy of FOTI so I can't immediately refer to
it in trying to answer your question. Try I will, though.

First, the setting for FOTI is the later years of the VN conflict.
This is important because the A-6A was the current Intruder model at
that time. The A-6E had not yet entered fleet service and some of
the whistles and bells of the A system were eliminated or very
greatly changed in the E system - including a couple of
terrain-clearance toys that Coonts likely describes in FOTI.

Second, one must remember that the A-6A was the "first" of its kind -
the first aircraft with full integration of its various sensors into
a digital (not analog, like the Norden bombsight) computer. In this
respect it was also very much "bleeding edge." The personal computing
dictum about being especially wary of Version 1 of anything could as
well have been written by those of us in the A-6A.

Joel,

Thanks for enlightening me about the Whale's capabilities. The fact that
the ASB-7 was digital was unknown to me. Some of the other info I only
vaguely recall, since much of it came in ready room and O-Club conversations
from those former heavy attack types who migrated into the Intruder program.

I probably should have emphasized more the successful integration of the A-6
system in my original post. Certainly there were other digital bombing
systems in use prior to the A-6's ASQ-61. More precisely, the A-6 was the
first aircraft to integrate "successfully enough" all of its key sensors -
thermal, pitot-static, INS, radars, etc. into its computer (and with
computer feedback to some of these systems like the INS) - enabling it to
launch, successfully prosecute an attack and return to the ship without any
external visual reference until ball-call. Our term back then for this was
"full-system capable."

Of course this was the theory. The actuality was a system with an average
MTBF of less than a hop. A 1,200 foot error margin for the ASB-1A is
something we "old" B/Ns can identify with, since the Q-61 could go
squirrelly. I probably have a tighter CEP for manual range line attacks (a
typical form of A-6A degraded system attack) than for full-system work.

--
Mike Kanze

"John Kerry has promised to take this country back from the wealthy. Who
better than the guy worth $700 million to take the country back? See, he
knows how the wealthy think. He can spy on them at his country club, at his
place in Palm Beach, at his house in the Hamptons. He's like a mole for the
working man."

- Jay Leno


"J. McEachen" wrote in message
...
Was the A6F/A-6A "first of its kind" with a digital bombing system? I
bombed from A3D-2/A-3B bombers, ours had the Norden electro-mechanical
analog computer with ASB-1A bombing system radar. I heard, but never saw,
that the 147xxx buno A-3B's, all delivered to Whidbey heavy attack
squadrons, had a digital ASB-7 bombing system. The ASB-1A system had a
1,200' margin of error, all who were inducted into the HATWINGONE "Bulls
Eye Club" were said to be victims of this error tolerance.
Does anyone here know of the ASB-7 systems? I don't know how long they
stayed in operation as bombers, the East coast VAH squadrons were
transitioning to the Vigilante starting 1961, the West coast A-3's seem to
have transitioned to KA-3B's and EKA-3B'shortly thereafter so this all
digital ASB-7 probably did little bombing.
Joel McEachen VAH-5

Mike Kanze wrote:
Nick, I've loaned out my copy of FOTI so I can't immediately refer to
it in trying to answer your question. Try I will, though.

First, the setting for FOTI is the later years of the VN conflict.
This is important because the A-6A was the current Intruder model at
that time. The A-6E had not yet entered fleet service and some of
the whistles and bells of the A system were eliminated or very
greatly changed in the E system - including a couple of
terrain-clearance toys that Coonts likely describes in FOTI.

Second, one must remember that the A-6A was the "first" of its kind -
the first aircraft with full integration of its various sensors into
a digital (not analog, like the Norden bombsight) computer. In this
respect it was also very much "bleeding edge." The personal computing
dictum about being especially wary of Version 1 of anything could as
well have been written by those of us in the A-6A.

"Mike Kanze" wrote...

I probably have a tighter CEP for manual range line attacks (a typical
form of A-6A degraded system attack) than for full-system work.

MRLs were still alive and well in the A-6E TRAM in the late 80s! I can't claim
a great CEP with them, but they worked with a good B/N.

OTOH, I got one of my bullseye patches with a 5' hit on a high loft with a Mk76.
When a system was tight, it could be PFM!

John,

When a system was tight, it could be PFM!

Absolutely! Those were the hops A-6A B/Ns would "almost" give up a testicle
to fly. Usually one didn't know until airborne how nice things would be, so
every time you manned up you hoped for the best. Flying the OB-16 route at
night with a tight system was "the stuff dreams are made from." (Apologies
to Sam Spade / Humphrey Bogart.)

--
Mike Kanze

"John Kerry has promised to take this country back from the wealthy. Who
better than the guy worth $700 million to take the country back? See, he
knows how the wealthy think. He can spy on them at his country club, at his
place in Palm Beach, at his house in the Hamptons. He's like a mole for the
working man."

- Jay Leno


"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:gxAad.159906$wV.63195@attbi_s54...
"Mike Kanze" wrote...

I probably have a tighter CEP for manual range line attacks (a
typical form of A-6A degraded system attack) than for full-system work.

MRLs were still alive and well in the A-6E TRAM in the late 80s! I can't
claim a great CEP with them, but they worked with a good B/N.

OTOH, I got one of my bullseye patches with a 5' hit on a high loft with a
Mk76. When a system was tight, it could be PFM!