Quantico mishap?

Not to second guess the driver, but if I had just
touched down on the deck, and on centerline, but not
able to stop - with a soft marsh at the end of the
strip..... I'd have just gone along for the ride &
NOT bailed out .... had this happen once on an old
Lear 35, (lost hydraulics) - but on centerline - the
option to bail obviously was missing, but it wasn't
"that" dangerous since we knew it was just a grassy
field at the end of the runway we'd over run into &
not a building or rising terrain.

Anyone know why the pilot chose to bail out ? (as
opposed to just jettisoning the canopy once they
had ditched into the marsh/water).

What's the official vs. unwritten understanding among
the community regarding the "macho factor" of when to
bail out of a jet vs. staying in the jet ?

There was an Israeli Air Force Pilot several years ago
flying an F-15 (forget what version), during an aerial
training exercise, there was a midair collision.

His F-15 lost control, he told his rear seater to stand
by to eject- then decided to see if he could regain control
of the aircraft - by going full throttle, light AB's. He
got control of the aircraft back and managed to land it...
although at a substantially higher Vref.

McDonnell Douglas sent reps out after they saw pictures
of the aircraft - and the pilot said during interviews, if
he had been aware of the damage he would have bailed out -
the entire right wing of that F-15 had been sheared off.

What factors would make a Hornet driver, already on the
deck, on centerline, knowing a soft marsh was up ahead at
the end of the runway, decide to pull that handle ? (vs.
just riding it out, and open , or jettison the canopy
once stopped).

On 10/1/04 4:28 PM, in article
, "Allen Epps"
wrote:
SNIP
At least a year ago when I left VAQ-209 (we shared a hangar) , 321 was
flying A models so I would guess it just gets sent off to fire fighting
school or something and they pull another one from the boneyeard or
wherever A's went when the C's hit the fleet (and are now leaving the
fleet)

Pugs

Pugs,

I thought all of the USMCR Hornets got ECP-583 A+ upgrades. Were the Hell's
Angels the exception?

By the way, the Hornet community's mishap rate this year seems to be in the
toilet. Anybody got any comparative numbers?

--Woody

On 10/1/04 5:39 PM, in article , "Dr Doom" Dr
wrote:


Not to second guess the driver, but if I had just
touched down on the deck, and on centerline, but not
able to stop - with a soft marsh at the end of the
strip..... I'd have just gone along for the ride &
NOT bailed out .... had this happen once on an old
Lear 35, (lost hydraulics) - but on centerline - the
option to bail obviously was missing, but it wasn't
"that" dangerous since we knew it was just a grassy
field at the end of the runway we'd over run into &
not a building or rising terrain.


I didn't catch the runway conditions. If the pavement was wet, the Hornet
sometimes doesn't handle that well. It doesn't typically exhibit signs of
trouble until it gets slower, then directional control gets lost, and bad
things happen.

Anyone know why the pilot chose to bail out ? (as
opposed to just jettisoning the canopy once they
had ditched into the marsh/water).


When the jet gets sideways, it has a tendency to flip over. Folks don't
typically like to stick around in the cockpit to see what that's like.

What's the official vs. unwritten understanding among
the community regarding the "macho factor" of when to
bail out of a jet vs. staying in the jet ?


There's no official "macho factor." I have no idea what you're talking
about. Most pilots say: "Know when to go. Then GO."

SNIP
What factors would make a Hornet driver, already on the
deck, on centerline, knowing a soft marsh was up ahead at
the end of the runway, decide to pull that handle ? (vs.
just riding it out, and open , or jettison the canopy
once stopped).


Just answered that. The Hornet tends not to be a good "four wheeler."

--Woody

On 10/1/04 11:20 PM, in article , "Doug
"Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote:

On 10/1/04 4:28 PM, in article
, "Allen Epps"
wrote:
SNIP
At least a year ago when I left VAQ-209 (we shared a hangar) , 321 was
flying A models so I would guess it just gets sent off to fire fighting
school or something and they pull another one from the boneyeard or
wherever A's went when the C's hit the fleet (and are now leaving the
fleet)

Pugs

Pugs,

I thought all of the USMCR Hornets got ECP-583 A+ upgrades. Were the Hell's
Angels the exception?

By the way, the Hornet community's mishap rate this year seems to be in the
toilet. Anybody got any comparative numbers?

--Woody


Bad form replying to my own post, but it seems that the overall mishap rate
according to the Safety Center (Class A Flight) was 1.13... Better than the
last 5 years. Better than the goal, but behind next year's goal of .88.

--Woody

Jet was going to Quantico to become a popsicle. Short runway (approx 4 K')
was likely a contributing factor.

"Allen Epps" wrote in message
et...
In article , Ogden Johnson
III wrote:

Greasy Rider wrote:

"Thomas Schoene" proclaimed:

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2...004/1095702046

If that is a photo of a "minor" incident then I'd hate to see some
serious damage to an aircraft.

The aircraft ran off the runway into a marshy area, at least as
the article describes. By NavAir standards, that probably will
be classed as a "minor" mishap [not incident] based on the $$
amount required to repair the aircraft. What can be seen of the
fuselage/wings doesn't show extensive damage, and the nose end
/may/ not have much damage if it also impacted wet lands rather
than the embankment it is obscured by. It will certainly make a
trip to NARF [or whatever they're calling them these days],
before being returned to VMA-321.

At least a year ago when I left VAQ-209 (we shared a hangar) , 321 was
flying A models so I would guess it just gets sent off to fire fighting
school or something and they pull another one from the boneyeard or
wherever A's went when the C's hit the fleet (and are now leaving the
fleet)

Pugs

In article , Doug \"Woody\" and
Erin Beal wrote:

On 10/1/04 4:28 PM, in article
, "Allen Epps"
wrote:
SNIP
At least a year ago when I left VAQ-209 (we shared a hangar) , 321 was
flying A models so I would guess it just gets sent off to fire fighting
school or something and they pull another one from the boneyeard or
wherever A's went when the C's hit the fleet (and are now leaving the
fleet)

Pugs

Pugs,

I thought all of the USMCR Hornets got ECP-583 A+ upgrades. Were the Hell's
Angels the exception?

By the way, the Hornet community's mishap rate this year seems to be in the
toilet. Anybody got any comparative numbers?

--Woody


Woody,
You may well be right. I just saw next to the buno on their jets it
still had F/A-18A. Was the A+ a field mod or depot level work?
Pugs

When the jet gets sideways, it has a tendency to flip over. Folks don't
typically like to stick around in the cockpit to see what that's like.

Su-22 killer Hank Kleeman bought the farm just like that...
_____________
José Herculano

On 10/2/04 5:38 AM, in article
, "Allen Epps"
wrote:



Pugs,

I thought all of the USMCR Hornets got ECP-583 A+ upgrades. Were the Hell's
Angels the exception?

By the way, the Hornet community's mishap rate this year seems to be in the
toilet. Anybody got any comparative numbers?

--Woody


Woody,
You may well be right. I just saw next to the buno on their jets it
still had F/A-18A. Was the A+ a field mod or depot level work?
Pugs

The A+ comes in two flavors: ECP-560 and ECP-583. Both mods upgrade the
Mission Computers to XN-8's (i.e. C model MC's) and Embedded GPS/INS (EGI).
The result is an F/A-18C weapons system in an F/A-18A airframe--an F/A-18A+.
The ECP-583 also comes with an APG-73 (Radar Upgrade or RUG) radar and the
Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT).

All this is done at depot level.

Long answer for a short question.

--Woody

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:59:21 +0100, "José Herculano"
proclaimed:
When the jet gets sideways, it has a tendency to flip over. Folks don't
typically like to stick around in the cockpit to see what that's like.

Su-22 killer Hank Kleeman bought the farm just like that...
_____________
José Herculano


I am proud to have his autograph.
I bought him a drink at the O Club at Oceana when they returned from
that cruise. He gave me the only Shoot Down patch outside of the
squadron.

"Doug "Woody" wrote in message ...

There's no official "macho factor." I have no idea what you're talking
about. Most pilots say: "Know when to go. Then GO."

Understood, thanks for the response.

Actually, reading another post answered the question in the anecdotal
form that some pilots would rather die than "look" bad in front of their
peers.

I suppose the question then becomes one of what exactly is considered
looking bad ? (that would make them ride it out to the end).