FBO's and WiFi

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:52:58 -0500, Montblack wrote:

http://www.orderdsl.net/satellite.htm How well do these systems work?

2-way satellite "high speed" internet access.

Anyone with experience with these systems? Hidden costs?

Looks like a good $99 month solution - if it works.

Less than that, actually. Around here, lots of gas stations
use it to connect to their HQ. Perhaps they get discounts.

I do not have experience, but there are some obvious gotchas.
First, you must have USB, and you must have Windows (2K or XP).
Second, interactive traffic is a pain in the ass because
of the delay, so gaming is out. Neither are fatal for FBO
or a gas station, I suppose.

-- Pete

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:13:35 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

500ms ping time minimum... So count on lots of lag...

Unless you are playing online computer games, you would never notice the
lag. Most Internet access is of the form "brief request for data,
followed by large amount of data returned". It'll take an extra
half-second for the data to show up, but that will generally be swamped by
the time it takes to actually generate and send the data, even at
broadband speeds.

This depends on how big the data piece is relative to the
starting handshake. Consider that TCP start-up involves
so-called 3-way handshake, and that many protocols have
a setup phase when client and server exchange messages
strictly in simplex, before bulk data transmission can commence.

None will work when it rains hard or the sun is in transit
(summer / winter soltice)...

Why would you say that? The satellite data systems I've seen are based on
similar technology to that used for my digital broadcast satellite system.
At worst, data throughput drops *some*, and that's in the very worst
downpours.

I have no idea why the solstices would have any effect on data
transmission. Perhaps you could explain that one.

Your transmitter is nowhere as powerful as the one of the base station
or the one on the satellite.

The good news is that DirecWay's dish is about as big as the
old PrimeStar dish. I have one of those, modified to support
DirecTV's LNB with a bunch of duct tape and some pieces of wood.
My TV never goes off even in "worst downpours". So, your downlink
is virtually rain proof. The bad news is that the same cannot
be said about your uplink.

Solstices only knock communication off for several minutes a day,
when the Sun is directly behind the satellite. It is a well known
effect. I used to depend on an old Soviet satellite Raduga-7
for connectivity, and it was true back then.

-- Pete

"Pete Zaitcev" wrote in message
news
This depends on how big the data piece is relative to the
starting handshake. Consider that TCP start-up involves
so-called 3-way handshake, and that many protocols have
a setup phase when client and server exchange messages
strictly in simplex, before bulk data transmission can commence.

Regardless, that still only affects the initial delay in response. Even if
the delay were 10 seconds (which it's almost never going to be), that's in
the same ballpark as the delay some servers have just getting around to
servicing a client. It's just not a big deal.

[...] So, your downlink
is virtually rain proof. The bad news is that the same cannot
be said about your uplink.

Hmmm...okay, I see. I wasn't aware that they didn't provide a high enough
power transmitter to deal with weather.

Solstices only knock communication off for several minutes a day,
when the Sun is directly behind the satellite. It is a well known
effect. I used to depend on an old Soviet satellite Raduga-7
for connectivity, and it was true back then.

Several minutes? I guess I'd call that insignificant. That's what, 10
minutes of downtime per year? Big deal. I have to deal with that kind of
downtime with my wired DSL access.

Pete

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
(John Galban) wrote:

the Pringles can is too small to have good signals. You have to use a
wider can.


While I haven't tried the pringles can, a 14dbi YAGI antenna is 3" in
diameter. The specs show some incredible range capabilities with height,
while still offering T1 speeds, interference and practicality
notwithstanding (how do you get two fixed antennas 4000ft tall, 80 miles
apart?). The tower could easily use the FBO set up with the right antennas
and line of sight.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Pete Zaitcev" wrote in message
news
This depends on how big the data piece is relative to the
starting handshake. Consider that TCP start-up involves
so-called 3-way handshake, and that many protocols have
a setup phase when client and server exchange messages
strictly in simplex, before bulk data transmission can commence.

Regardless, that still only affects the initial delay in response.

The number of DNS queries to render any particular page can drive this time
up quite high. Have a couple packets lost in between? ouch.

$1000 a year is a bit steep for the class of service.

"Peter Duniho" writes:

"Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message
...
500ms ping time minimum... So count on lots of lag...

Unless you are playing online computer games, you would never notice the
lag.

Interactive logins (telnet, etc) would suck with such a lag.

-jav

"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
Newps wrote in message
.net...
Javier Henderson wrote:

I overnighted at CRQ on Friday, and used Western Flight for FBO
services.

I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they offer complimentary
WiFi
Internet access to their customers. Details are posted right on the
counter.

Is the range sufficient that, say, the guy in the tower might be able to
access the net?


You know how to use a Pringle's can, don't you??


http://www.time.com/time/archive/pre...260724,00.html

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Like I'm going to pay $2.50 to see a story on the net! NOT!
--
Jim in NC--

Like I'm going to pay $2.50 to see a story on the net! NOT!
Free version
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448




WW

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

I have no idea why the solstices would have any effect on data
transmission.
Perhaps you could explain that one.


During solstices, or even within a few days, the elevation to the sun and
the satelite is nearly the same. As the sun transits across the sky, for a
period of time, your reciever, the satelite, and the sun are all nearly in
line. The sun; since it appears directly on the other side of the
transmitter, overcomes the transmitter signal with white noise (radiation)
--
Jim in NC--

Pete Zaitcev wrote in message ...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:13:35 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

500ms ping time minimum... So count on lots of lag...

Unless you are playing online computer games, you would never notice the
lag. Most Internet access is of the form "brief request for data,
followed by large amount of data returned". It'll take an extra
half-second for the data to show up, but that will generally be swamped by
the time it takes to actually generate and send the data, even at
broadband speeds.

This depends on how big the data piece is relative to the
starting handshake. Consider that TCP start-up involves
so-called 3-way handshake, and that many protocols have
a setup phase when client and server exchange messages
strictly in simplex, before bulk data transmission can commence.

Sorry for continuing an off-topic conversation and splitting hairs,
but....

"Lag" in the original poster's case, is actually referred to as
"latency" in the world of computer networking. Latency is defined as
the time it takes to set up and send a message, whereas bandwidth is
the rate at which data moves from point to point. Sat connections,
therefore, have a latency of 500ms (for example) plus the latency of
the system doing the send/receive.

Since all data is transported in TCP packets (in the case of Web
traffic), there is continual send AND receive on BOTH sides since TCP
requires acknowledgement of every packet on the part the of the
receiver (remember, TCP is a *reliable* protocol). Granted, the ACK
packets are much smaller than the data packets and most of the traffic
to a web browswer is downstream, but a high-latency network like
satellite will exhibit performance degradation during *all* phases of
a connection, not just startup.

Did I just restate what was already said? Sorry!

-Scott