In Flight computers and softwa

On Nov 13, 9:14*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Okay folks, I am a rather new glider pilot, about 120 flights within the
last year and maybe close to 100 hours aloft. *(I have mastered sink) *
I am beginning to acquire the gadgets necessary to proceed with this
sport and was looking for some input on those little PDA type devices I
see people poking with a stylus before take off.

Any recommendations on the best one to have? *Software? *What can it do?
The best device for those of us technically challenged? *

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

You don't need any of that stuff to master most of the important
elements of soaring.
Learn to stay up reliably when weather is "reasonable'. Then start
some short cross countries
that you have laid out with a chart- Yes some people still use them.
If you are not flying with
sufficient margins to not nee glide computer stuff, you are too low.
Then, go do your Silver badge.
After that- think about adding extra stuff.
It is a huge confidence builder to know you can get home when all the
tools die.
FWIW
Good Luck
UH

On 11/19/2010 9:17 AM, wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:14 am, Walt ConnellyWalt.Connelly.
wrote:
Okay folks, I am a rather new glider pilot, about 120 flights within the
last year and maybe close to 100 hours aloft. (I have mastered sink)
I am beginning to acquire the gadgets necessary to proceed with this
sport and was looking for some input on those little PDA type devices I
see people poking with a stylus before take off.

Any recommendations on the best one to have? Software? What can it do?
The best device for those of us technically challenged?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

You don't need any of that stuff to master most of the important
elements of soaring.
Learn to stay up reliably when weather is "reasonable'. Then start
some short cross countries
that you have laid out with a chart- Yes some people still use them.
If you are not flying with
sufficient margins to not nee glide computer stuff, you are too low.
Then, go do your Silver badge.
After that- think about adding extra stuff.
It is a huge confidence builder to know you can get home when all the
tools die.
FWIW
Good Luck
UH

"What UH said."

FWIW, 'everyone' who sticks with the sport to where you presently are - and
then a little beyond to where you seem to want to be going (great and fun
places, indeed!) - goes through the phase you seem at the moment (to me,
anyway) to be in. It's part of the game.

That (not condescendingly) noted, almost all the truly useful stuff to be
gained from participation in soaring flows from the simple - yeah right! -
ability to remain aloft more or less when you want to on UH's aforementioned
'reasonable days.' No PDA/PNA/GPS/flight-computer/software in the world can
help you in that regard in the absence of 'useful thermalling skills.' Just
like no purchasable L/D in the world will save your bacon in the absence of
basic landout skills and the ability to safely use 'em...

Donning my Great Karnak hat, here's what your future will likely look like if
you actively focus initially on the horse (i.e. thermalling skills) before the
cart (i.e. potentially useful whiz-bang accoutrements [once ensuring you've
the much-more-crucial decent vario/vario-plumbing, of course]):

- you either will or will not eventually decide to go the route of technical
complexity...but this time from a solidly useful personal perspective (as
distinct from [say] the perspective of merely trying to make your cockpit look
like that of those you presently perceive as being ahead of you on the XC
soaring curve).

IOW, one day you'll *know* when you are or aren't ready to go the complexity
route...and the complex route certainly isn't necessary in order to become a
competent, diamond-skill-worthy, XC pilot. You might even decide to save your
'complexity mad-money' for tows, a better sailplane, or ???

Don't fret at this stage about being 'technically challenged,' cuz that
condition won't be what holds you back or slows your ascent of gaining 'useful
XC' soaring skills.

Regards,
Bob W.

On Nov 19, 10:17*am, wrote:

You don't need any of that stuff to master most of the important
elements of soaring.
Learn to stay up reliably when weather is "reasonable'. Then start
some short cross countries
that you have laid out with a chart- Yes some people still use them.
If you are not flying with
sufficient margins to not nee glide computer stuff, you are too low.
Then, go do your Silver badge.
After that- think about adding extra stuff.
It is a huge confidence builder to know you can get home when all the
tools die.
FWIW
Good Luck
UH

Walt, UH is absolutely correct - focus on the basics (and get some
good books on advanced & XC soaring and study them) then practice
until you are comfortable in both weak and strong conditions.

When you are starting to venture out into unknown areas (or getting
ready for your first contest - kinda the same thing, really) then is a
good time to start looking at glide computers, moving maps, etc.

They (flight computers) are a lot of fun to use, if setup
intelligently, but cannot replace basic skills; to use them
effectively your flying has to have progressed to the point that it is
becoming instinctive.

Good luck!

Kirk
66

On Nov 19, 11:44*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
On Nov 19, 10:17*am, wrote:



You don't need any of that stuff to master most of the important
elements of soaring.
Learn to stay up reliably when weather is "reasonable'. Then start
some short cross countries
that you have laid out with a chart- Yes some people still use them.
If you are not flying with
sufficient margins to not nee glide computer stuff, you are too low.
Then, go do your Silver badge.
After that- think about adding extra stuff.
It is a huge confidence builder to know you can get home when all the
tools die.
FWIW
Good Luck
UH

Walt, UH is absolutely correct - focus on the basics (and get some
good books on advanced & XC soaring and study them) then practice
until you are comfortable in both weak and strong conditions.

When you are starting to venture out into unknown areas (or getting
ready for your first contest - kinda the same thing, really) then is a
good time to start looking at glide computers, moving maps, etc.

They (flight computers) are a lot of fun to use, if setup
intelligently, but cannot replace basic skills; to use them
effectively your flying has to have progressed to the point that it is
becoming instinctive.

Good luck!

Kirk
66

I'm a little timid about going against the conventional wisdom, in
part because it sounds so logical, but I just went through this 3 and
4 years ago and right now I am watching newish pilots at this stage,
and I have a different view. Where I fly there is no lift at the
field, so you generally take a 6 to 9 mile tow to a lift generator,
for example Mt. Washington (north of Seattle). When you're learning to
thermal you stay as long as you can and then 'final glide' back to the
field. My advice to new pilots is to repeat that flight over and over,
keeping track of the departure and arrival altitudes; then move to
another thermal generator and repeat. Having SYM on a PDA/PNA with
ONLY the distance,bearing, and arrival altitude (in a large font) and
with map and Terrain turned off, isn't a distraction and won't hurt
you. You will get used to having the information so that one day when
you are coming back low or need to make another field you can just fly
the bearing and get home safe. That sure saved my ass one day when I
unexpectedly needed to know exactly where to go and had zero time to
figure it out. I still fly with very little information on the
screen, I think I added only wind to the mix so far.

Brian

Hi Walt -

I see you're getting a lot of responses and more than a few opinions
(always the case here on RAS; and not necessarily a bad thing). I was
where you were at about 2.5 years ago, so (like Brian) let me make a
few suggestions as someone who's "been there" recently:

1) UH's advice is good. Learn to thermal really really well. Even if
it means taking local flights a little more than you want. As long as
there are a few house thermals within 3 - 5 miles of your home
airport, its valuable practice. Don't be afraid to try working weak
lift - especially near the end of your flights (but NOT after you've
decided you need to come in for a landing - always cut off at a
reasonable altitude, and commit to that decision).

2) Read, read, read. Bob Wander (and others) have some really good
books about Thermals and Cross-country soaring. You don't need to
read about competitions or racing yet (although they are cool)... But
find some books that you can read and enjoy, to help you learn how to
prepare for cross-country flights. If you have time, learning more
about weather is good (again, there are some glider-oriented books
about this topic).

3) If you are good with computers, the Condor Soaring simulator is
good for practicing XC flights (and there's a PDA inside your cockpit
in that simulator, too). I recommend buying rudder pedals and a
TrackIR (head tracking so you can "look around" in the game and do a
proper visual scan) - but that requires a couple of hundred $$
investment. I think its a good investment, but I realize that not
everyone can afford it.

4) Once you are ready to fly XC and use a PDA/computer, you will find
that your personal preferences and style matter a LOT. Everyone has
an opinion on hardware or software; but the important thing is to try
a bunch of different things and figure out what works best for you.
For example: Brian likes text and almost no moving map. I like a big
moving map and almost no text. We both make it work - the difference
is style. He finds it easier to "read" numbers, whereas I am able to
interpret colors and symbols quickly.

The bottom line is that setting up a PDA takes work. Not just in
buying the hardware and software, but in figuring out how to configure
the program with the display/setup YOU like. Most of the programs out
there (LK8000, XC Soar, SeeYouMobile, etc) are highly configurable and
can be set to display information in a variety of ways. It needs to
work for YOU (and no one else). It needs to let you show the
information you want in a way that you can quickly and easily
understand, so you can get your eyes back outside the cockpit where
they belong! In normal flight, the PDA should be a "sanity check" or
a backup to your gut/intuition.

The best way to get experience is to see if your fellow pilots can let
you fiddle with their PDA on the ground sometime. Spend time with
each one and try to experiment with as many different PDAs and
programs as you can - and see which works for you. Some of them (like
my favorite, LK8000) have a built-in "simulator" mode (or a "replay"
mode) that lets you take a pretend flight and see how the software
reacts in-flight.

Good luck, stay active, and feel free to post again if you have more
questions!

Take care,

--Noel
P.S. In case you're curious: SeeYouMobile is pricey, but has a ton
of features, is pretty easy to use, and comes with a lot of the "setup
work" done for you. Free software like LK8000 and XCSoar have pretty
much all of the same features as SeeYouMobile, but they require you to
do a little bit more of the setup work. Its not hard work, but its
the difference between clicking an "Install" button versus downloading
several individual files and copying them to the right directory on
your PC or PDA, and then selecting the proper items from configuration
menus inside the program.

One consideration is that some flight computer software will get "blue" OLC
validation from the built in logger using only the PDA and a GPS (like a CF
card GPS). SeeYouMobile for example. There are others. This can save the
cost of an IGC logger in some cases.

John