High Performance Single Engine Choices

your going to get alot of input on this one.
I know the other day when I flew back from carlsbad california, center called
out a mooney to me that was doing 200 kts. Dont know what kind, never saw him
either. I know he was at 11,000 ft is all. But the comanche 400 and some
mooney's push the 200 kt area. Cirrus SR22 is like 185 kts.

I skipped all the war birds like the P-51 ... the fastest single engine plane is
the one who broke the 500 MPH mark at the last air race in Reno, Nv. I think it
was a P-51.

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what is the fastest single-engine aircraft
available and how fast does it go? -Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami

Did they say they would not insure those for you or did they price them out of
your range or what your wanting to pay for insurance?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrotelo.


Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.

They said tey would insure them and the price range seem pretty
reasonable to me. -sami

Jeff wrote:

Did they say they would not insure those for you or did they price them out of
your range or what your wanting to pay for insurance?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrotelo.


Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.

And a 225 bo would not go 160+ knots.

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...
Just out of curiosity, what is the fastest single-engine aircraft
available and how fast does it go? -Sami

If you will consider experimentals, the Lancair IV-P is the king.
4-seats, 330mph TAS, pressurized. Price tag is $350-500k depending on
options.

Fastest production is probably the Mooney 252 series (now called
TLS/Bravo). These will do 220 KTAS. For new planes, the pricetag is
similar to the Lancair, although an older 252 would be $150k+.

An early 1980 A36 TC or turbonormalized will do 200 kts and will have
the six seats. Price is around $200k.

Keep in mind these are not normal operating speeds, but maximum cruise
speeds. You probably won't make it to 2000hrs after overhaul if you
run the engine at 75% or greater power required to achieve these
speeds.

For the $75-120k pricerange you mentioned, an N thru-V model V35
Bonanza would fit your requirements.

-Nathan

If you will consider experimentals, the Lancair IV-P is the king.
4-seats, 330mph TAS, pressurized. Price tag is $350-500k depending on
options.

Don't forget that most experimentals -- especially in this category -- are
completely uninsurable. You might get liability coverage, but nothing more.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote
1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)

No airplane in that class really has a good safety record (in the
sense that something like a C-172 does). These airplanes are used for
transportation, not training and going around the patch. Virtually
any certified tri-gear landplane that can be bought for $120K in good
condition is going to be insurable for you, but anything in the
performance class you want will require 10-25 hours dual and a big hit
in the first year (think $3K+).

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

First off, never compare top speeds between normally aspirated and
turbo - they are not comparable. The turbo needs to go high to get
its speed, and that means you never go very fast when Westbound.
Pretty quick going East, though. Unless you NEED to go high (meaning
you fly in the mountains) a turbo is rarely cost-effective.

The Comanche 260 is a good choice for what you want - make sure it has
at least 84 gallons of fuel. The Mooney is cramped in the cabin - if
you're going to fly long legs, you won't enjoy it unless you are thin.
Other planes you might consider:

A 1960's era Bonanza. Most Bonanzas of that era don't make book speed
because they were tested clean (without antennas) but they're still
the fastest thing around with a reasonably roomy cabin.

A Viking. Wood wings are an issue (get one from a dry climate and
hangar it) but purchase price is low, and the speed is there. The
14-19 is the tailwheel version - way cool, but insurance will be an
issue.

You may also consider twins. The only ones that really fit your
mission profile while maintianing similar operating costs are the Twin
Comanche and Beech Travel Air. Insurance will be higher ($4K+) if you
are instrument rated, and ridiculous ($6K+) if you are not. Purchase
price will be lower than a comparably performing single.

Michael

On the contrary, MOST experimentals ARE insurable. There were a
few incidents where AVEMCO would not insure a FEW hi performance
experimentals, but then EAA cut its ties with AVEMCO and
the new EAA insurer is now Falcon Insurance.
If you are interested, there are more details at
http://www.eaa.org/communications/ea...insurance.html

However, what may be true is that the hull insurance on a few
hi perf. experimentals may be beyond budget for SOME owners.

And if somebody is interested in a particular experimental,
they can contact the KIT Mfg. and ask them.

----------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee, SQ2000 canard project: www.abri.com/sq2000

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:EN0Bb.269559$Dw6.916917@attbi_s02...
If you will consider experimentals, the Lancair IV-P is the king.
4-seats, 330mph TAS, pressurized. Price tag is $350-500k depending on
options.

Don't forget that most experimentals -- especially in this category -- are
completely uninsurable. You might get liability coverage, but nothing more.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:19:47 -0800, Jeff wrote:

A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.

The Comanche 260 were bringing a premium and ran considerably more
than the 250s. I don't know if they still do, but they were running
about the same as an early F-33. Maybe a bit more than the Debonairs.

I would think you should be able to find Bonanzas and Debonairs from
the same era as the Comanche in about the same price range. As in
anything else condition and prices may vary widely.

As for the number of passengers, most of the "4 passenger" high
performance singles are three adults and you might be able to cary
full tanks. In 74 they raised the useful load in the F-33s from 1000#
to 1400# so if you take 80 gallons at 6# per which makes 480#, that
leaves 920# that you can load in. Unfortunately the 74s are probably
going to run around $150,000. With earlier models you are looking at
1000#, minus 480# of gas, leaving a total of 520# for people and
baggage. Three FAA standard 170# adults just happen to be 510# so
they can take 10# of luggage between them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


EDR wrote:

In article , O. Sami Saydjari
wrote:

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV.

The Arrow is a three adult/two adult-two child airplane.

Look at a Bonanza.

On the contrary, MOST experimentals ARE insurable.

Well, in the same sense that Betty Grable's legs were "insurable".

The only experimental aircraft with affordable insurance that I know of is
the RV line. I've talked to the Glasair and Lancair people (and the Cirrus
people, in the certificated category), and they all just try to change the
subject when you bring up insurance. They ALL try to gloss over the fact
that you will be paying upwards of $15K per YEAR for full coverage.

I'm sorry, but in my world, that's "uninsurable"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"