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On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris wrote:
On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly. wrote: 'GB[_5_ Wrote: ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, " wrote:- On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote: - Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.- - Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots there.- - EX- Good on the U.S. Team management. GKemp- Shame on you Mitch Hudson, I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass, slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not there. I can only assume that you got your information from your friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds. The facts are unimportant for this discussion. I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend and co-worker. Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting Devin, his family and his friends. Gabe Bourbeau Minden NV Gabe, Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM the day of an event is not a smart thing to do. As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision making. * What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance. Walt -- Walt Connelly As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like to have some fun but can take care of himself. Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago. I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain, sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in. As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very inappropriate thing to do. I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will. Jim Price |
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On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why. Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots there. EX And a ****ty decision on your part to post it too the world! If someone wanted to know, they could of found out on there own. But to expose a youth to this type of embarrasment is totally uncalled for. I'm sure the parents of Devin will take care of this issue, cause as the father of 3 kids I know I would!!!! |
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Justin,
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. It's not like Devin is 10 years old or something. He's 24, and a CFI. He's also representing all of us (or at least those of us in the USA). All these things mean he's expected to exercise better judgment than he did (apparently, according to the report, which as far as I am concerned is still a "rumor" at this point) and since he's representing soaring in the USA, I think we're entitled to know why he got kicked out (again, assuming the report is true). As a practical matter, your suggestion that his parents will discipline him seems kind of unlikely for a 24 year old. He's old enough to be a fully responsible member of the soaring community, with all that entails. Like Devin, I've been flying gliders since I was 12, and flew gliders and power all through my teens, 20's and 30's. I've also been known to have a few drinks from time to time, and occasionally even more than "a few". Before I had kids, I also partied 'til the sun came out from time to time. However, in all that time, the one thing I've been absolutely meticulous about is making sure that drinking and flying don't mix. Particularly in competition. I'd expect someone at as high a level as Devin has achieved to exercise judgment at least as good as this. Note that I am not implying that he was flying drunk. But drinking 'til 4AM the day before a competition is irresponsible even if he would have somehow been sober (but tired and hungover) by launch time. Finally, the issue with his reported disdain for the coaching staff is also relevant to all of us and certainly is at least as worthy of public ridicule as many of the other topics reported on RAS. --Stefan On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:59:20 -0500, Justin Rizor wrote: On Aug 24, 6:45 pm, Mitch Hudson wrote: Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general disrespect for the coaching staff. It is unfortunate that such a potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the U.S. team due to his drinking problem. For those of you who wondered why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why. Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots there. EX And a ****ty decision on your part to post it too the world! If someone wanted to know, they could of found out on there own. But to expose a youth to this type of embarrasment is totally uncalled for. I'm sure the parents of Devin will take care of this issue, cause as the father of 3 kids I know I would!!!! y |
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On Aug 25, 4:10*pm, "S. Murry" wrote:
Justin, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. * And a ****ty decision on your part to post it too the world! If someone wanted to know, they could of found out on there own. But to expose a youth to this type of embarrasment is totally uncalled for. I'm sure the parents of Devin will take care of this issue, cause as the father of 3 kids I know I would!!!! I agree this perhaps shouldn't be on r.a.s. Because it absolutely should have been on the U.S. team website. When you fly on the U.S. team you are representing U.S. soaring. You're not just flying for yourself, You benefit from large financial contributions from many supporters, and most of all from the dedicated work of many volunteers. You are accountable to all those people. Sorry, but with that you lose a certain amount of privacy. Your actions at the world contest are public. If a US team pilot does not fly, the many supporters deserve to know what happened. Same for landing out on the first day, losing the keys to the car, or any of the other stupid things pilots might do. If that's embarrassing, tough. If you want privacy for your screwups, don't fly on the US team. John Cochrane |
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![]() SNIP I agree this perhaps shouldn't be on *r.a.s. Because it absolutely should have been on the U.S. team website. SNIP John Cochrane Has any official report of this situation been reported, in fact, by the US Team? I checked when this post first came out, but was able to find nothing. Tim EY |
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I once left the office after work and went to the bar with a co-
worker. We sat through happy hour, 5pm-7pm, and had exactly 2 drinks. We then went to his house and messed around with his computers and electronic gadgets and played a couple of games of pool in his rec- room while enjoying a cigar. Those are the facts. Now...the way my EX told the story...I was out drinking with Jason until 2am again. Running all over town with "God-knows-who" doing "God- knows-what" and coming home smelling like an ashtray. Just because she woke up at 2am and looked at the clock (after I had already been home and in bed for more than 2 hours) does not mean I was out drinking until 2am. When she told her friends this story I was not there to clear up the details. Was that fair of her? How did her friends perceive me based on that information without even knowing me? THAT the information was given, I do not see as a problem. HOW the information was given, with opinions stated as facts, details sensationalized (such as "being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days")...that I wag my finger at. Was he drinking at 4am? Did someone see him take a shot and note the time at 4am? Was it HIS flying day or just "on flying days" in general (days that he may not even be scheduled to fly)? The verbiage is not clear. Did he fly within 8 hours of drinking or have a blood alcohol level above legal limit (0.04%)? Assuming all this is fact...Pays tab at 4am and flies at noon. If one is fit to fly and within all legal limits. Does that not meet the requirements (even if not recommended for comfort reasons)? That being said. Here is my PERSONAL policy. I am an American glider pilot and I NEVER drink even the day before I fly...as a rule. I know that is far more than required but that is my personal limit. But I have been known to sit with friends while they drink and have a Cranberry Tonic. Not a drop of alcohol in it. But to an observer... especially a "coaching staff who is already upset with my cocky attitude". Food for thought... Fox |
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On Aug 24, 8:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why. Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots there. EX I have watched this RAS thread regarding Devin from the beginning. There has been a significant effort in the background by the US Team Committee (USTC) and there is still work to be done. We believed that until now it was premature to comment publicly. The whole incident has been quite regrettable -- both the actual incident at the JWGC and then the posting on RAS. An official statement has now been provided on the SSA US Team site he http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=67...w=blog&id=2689 It has been clear to me from the postings that everyone is concerned. People have resonated about many different aspects of this ... Should it have been posted? Is the account true? Was the treatment fair? Why hasn't the USTC commented? and, so on. Most everyone does seem to agree that the reported conduct was neither appropriate for a US Team member nor in any way acceptable for safe, competitive (or even recreational) flying. Bill Elliott, Chairman US Team Committee |
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Thank you, Bill.
I can appreciate that this was a tough call. Guy "DDS" |
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On Aug 24, 9:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why. Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots there. EX |
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On Aug 24, 9:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why. Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots there. EX I have been looking in vain for anything official on this - has anyone seen ANYTHING other than rumors and hearsay? TA |
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