XCSoar Questions

I am running both XC Soar and LK8000 on a MIO S501 PNA.
Runs great, but screen could be a bit brighter.
I am complementing GNII which has fallen far behind on performance and
good task information, but I really like the readability of the Compaq
1500 display. If only I could get XC Soar on a Compaq 1500 display I'd
be done.
The MIO even though a 12 channel gps receiver will occasionally lose gps
in thermals, but only briefly and returns.

XC Soar has the best documentation compared to LK8000.

Wells

On 9/20/2011 12:32 PM, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi XCSoar users,

I am new to XCSoar. I am currently reading the manual for version 6.2
and playing with XCSoar on my PC and iPAQ hx4700.

My goal is to become a technical resource for XCSoar users. But since
I'm new, it will take me some time to get up to speed.

I'll be perfectly honest, in the past, I have not spent much time with
XCSoar because I prefer to sell products like SeeYou Mobile and Glide
Navigator II - because I'm trying to make a living selling soaring
products and supporting glider pilots with their technical products.
Since I can't sell XCSoar, it has been tough to make time to play with
it. However, many XCSoar users have told me how great it is, and I want
to be able to support XCSoar users with phone/web conferencing support
(I do a lot of that with SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile, Oudie, Glide Navigator
II and LXe users) and also provide cables, cradles and other accessories
for XCSoar users. Also, I try to stay up to date on the latest
technologies (I'm a techno-nerd) and XCSoar is definitely on the leading
edge in regard to supported hardware platforms. Becoming knowledgeable
on XCSoar (over time) will help me stay up with the latest technologies.

The reason I'm sending this note is to try to get a feel for how
customers are using XCSoar. I really have no idea what hardware users
are running it on, or how they are connecting their PDAs and PNAs to
their soaring flight instruments.

I hope no one minds my asking these questions. I sincerely want to be
able to help XCSoar users and become an expert.

Questions:
- What hardware platform (PDA/PNA/phone) are you running XCSoar on?
- What GPS are you using with XCSoar? Is it built-in to your PDA/PNA or
connected to your PDA using a cable connection, or Bluetooth, or.?
- Is your PDA/PNA connected to a soaring flight computer? If so, is it a
cable connection or Bluetooth, or .?
- If you are using a Bluetooth connection - is it reliable and easy to use?
- If you are using cables, where did you get them? I'd love to be able
to supply Goddard built cables for XCSoar users. Any PDA/PNA connector
wiring diagrams would be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry for these basic questions. I look forward to your feedback.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
Serving the soaring community
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
1-952-445-9033

LK8000 has a great manual on their website, over 200 pages. Trouble is
it is
all in German. Isn't there someone out there who would like to
translate to English
for us mono-linguistic pilots?

This isn't the latest version; however, it will is a good reference to
understanding the LK8000 philosophy. The "Help" elements of Ver 2.x screens
will fill in the blanks.
http://www.bware.it/LK8000/LK8000_MANUAL_122.pdf

Wayne

"soartech" wrote in message
...

LK8000 has a great manual on their website, over 200 pages. Trouble is
it is
all in German. Isn't there someone out there who would like to
translate to English
for us mono-linguistic pilots?

Paul,

Using Droid X and recently Droid bionic. Use the internal phone GPS currently but would love to use a cable from the lx5000 or bluetooth from LX Nano.. Have Oudie...but also like learning about other popular units that people are using.

Just like Google Maps and their Navigaton product has dominated Garmin out of existence in consumer GPS, so has XC soar begun to crush other flight computers. Partially because of cost but mostly because of the convenience of an all in one device. People don't want to carry 5 hardware units around.

With Garmin, their business model holds the basic limitation and requirement to purchase their hardware (crappy, requires second piece of hardware vs already being onboard ones phone) & most importantly expensive software (maps) upgrades or being faced with out of date maps. Google Nav/Maps is up to date automatically just as XC soar is automatically updated with Google market.

The other soaring product/software companies do not get it. They should have been out in front on this trend. Instead they are ignorant and way behind. They are stuck on stupid and ignoring this clear success of integrating software into smartphones or (most likely) are completely unable to respond to what XC Soar had done. A vast majority of their customers want to use their smart phones the many advantages they offer in hardware currency... And they are not reorganizing the transformation in the marketplace. They cannot compete any longer with garbage hardware. Why are so many who own expensive Oudies even trying XC Soar? The current providers offer cheap Chinese hardware vs. allowing their customers to use rapidly improving and vastly superior screen quality in mobile devices which most relevant pilots own already. Why they are still doing this is obvious, $$$. The customers are onto them now.

Also, the more recent generation Android smartphones feature increasingly large screens which can get extremely bright. Far brighter than, for example, my Oudie. All if these companies should be offering software on all major mobile platforms. The first ones to do so will dominate and likely kill the rest...

Oh and by the way...I would happily pay $100+ for professional supported software from Google market for soaring. I'm sure many iPhone/iPad users would as well. Maybe that's Max & team? Maybe somebody will buy them. But more should be stepping up to compete...

For now...XC soar is way ahead...for a vast najoriry if recreational and racing soaring pilots. Distribution is good!

Hi Paul,

I don't own a glider, only club and rental. I own SeeYou mobile and
PC with several iPaqs. SeeYou has several bug$ that never get fixed.
And the iPaq hardware is horribly old and slow. So I tried XCSoar on
my Droid X Android phone. It's so much faster, larger and more
readable screen. I do not have an external GPS for the Droid, so it's
sort of my backup GPS for now. I ran them both and got some IGC file
discrepancies that may be from lack of external antenna for the Droid
X.

Anyway, I think XCSoar is amazing. The shaded circle around your
glider showing wind aware landout point based on polar, safety
altitude etc is very nice.

XCSoar has improved dramatically recently. Porting to Android and
great features. I still occasionally get kicked out of the app and
have to restart it, but it happens less with each upgrade. That said,
this type of thing happens with SeeYou and iPaq too.

Hoping for more refinements from XCSoar namely some kind of color
coded nav boxes like SeeYou so you can quickly id data.

Sean Fiddler is right. People keep begging for these commercial apps
to port to modern hardware. I've seen the Oudie but I think it
terrible in full sun. The iPaqs are better because the screen sort of
uses the sun to light the image. Oudie is much better in the shade
though.

Anyway, but thumbs up for XCSoar! ... Aaron

Hi Aaron,

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with your statements below about
the Naviter Oudie. I find it to be fast and significantly brighter in
sunlight than any iPAQ. The only devices that are brighter are the much
more expensive LX8000, LX8080, LX98000, ClearNav, Ultimate, and LX Mini Map.

Please mention the bugs in SeeYou Mobile that have not been fixed. I think
it works great and is very well supported.

I think the new devices do look interesting, but the Oudie has been and
continues to be hugely popular. I've sold 336 so far. Customers seem to
like them very much - and tell their friends about them.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"akiley" wrote in message
...
Hi Paul,

I don't own a glider, only club and rental. I own SeeYou mobile and
PC with several iPaqs. SeeYou has several bug$ that never get fixed.
And the iPaq hardware is horribly old and slow. So I tried XCSoar on
my Droid X Android phone. It's so much faster, larger and more
readable screen. I do not have an external GPS for the Droid, so it's
sort of my backup GPS for now. I ran them both and got some IGC file
discrepancies that may be from lack of external antenna for the Droid
X.

Anyway, I think XCSoar is amazing. The shaded circle around your
glider showing wind aware landout point based on polar, safety
altitude etc is very nice.

XCSoar has improved dramatically recently. Porting to Android and
great features. I still occasionally get kicked out of the app and
have to restart it, but it happens less with each upgrade. That said,
this type of thing happens with SeeYou and iPaq too.

Hoping for more refinements from XCSoar namely some kind of color
coded nav boxes like SeeYou so you can quickly id data.

Sean Fiddler is right. People keep begging for these commercial apps
to port to modern hardware. I've seen the Oudie but I think it
terrible in full sun. The iPaqs are better because the screen sort of
uses the sun to light the image. Oudie is much better in the shade
though.

Anyway, but thumbs up for XCSoar! ... Aaron

On Sep 29, 10:57*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Aaron,

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with your statements below about
the Naviter Oudie. *I find it to be fast and significantly brighter in
sunlight than any iPAQ. *The only devices that are brighter are the much
more expensive LX8000, LX8080, LX98000, ClearNav, Ultimate, and LX Mini Map.

Please mention the bugs in SeeYou Mobile that have not been fixed. *I think
it works great and is very well supported.

I think the new devices do look interesting, but the Oudie has been and
continues to be hugely popular. *I've sold 336 so far. *Customers seem to
like them very much - and tell their friends about them.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"akiley" wrote in message

...

Hi Paul,

I don't own a glider, only club and rental. *I own SeeYou mobile and
PC with several iPaqs. *SeeYou has several bug$ that never get fixed.
And the iPaq hardware is horribly old and slow. *So I triedXCSoaron
my Droid X Android phone. *It's so much faster, larger and more
readable screen. *I do not have an external GPS for the Droid, so it's
sort of my backup GPS for now. *I ran them both and got some IGC file
discrepancies that may be from lack of external antenna for the Droid
X.

Anyway, I thinkXCSoaris amazing. *The shaded circle around your
glider showing wind aware landout point based on polar, safety
altitude etc is very nice.

XCSoarhas improved dramatically recently. *Porting to Android and
great features. *I still occasionally get kicked out of the app and
have to restart it, but it happens less with each upgrade. *That said,
this type of thing happens with SeeYou and iPaq too.

Hoping for more refinements fromXCSoarnamely some kind of color
coded nav boxes like SeeYou so you can quickly id data.

Sean Fiddler is right. *People keep begging for these commercial apps
to port to modern hardware. *I've seen the Oudie but I think it
terrible in full sun. *The iPaqs are better because the screen sort of
uses the sun to light the image. *Oudie is much better in the shade
though.

Anyway, but thumbs up forXCSoar! *... Aaron

I've mentioned these bugs on the Naviter forum and on this group. I
don't have the latest SeeYou, I'm at 3.2. I lived with these bugs for
a long time and didn't feel like spending more money on an upgrade to
see if they were fixed or not. Here is my list. The wing loading
changes when you leave the polar screen then come back. In Michigan,
the magnetic track box is off 12 degrees. Sometimes the graphic
thermal page shows blank the entire flight, sometimes it starts
working part way through. The Required MC to your target (NavBox)
doesn't take wind into account like the pseudo glideslope indicator
does.

I still like SeeYou mobile, and especially SeeYou PC, but I think
these should have been fixed by free incremental upgrades. I paid
good money for these apps :-)

I'm glad people like Oudie/SeeYou combo, and I'm sorry I dissagree,
but I still say in full sun, the Oudie is not as readable as the old
iPacs. They have a brighter screen for sure, but in full sun, screen
brightness isn't really a factor because the sun overpowers them so
much. I put the Oudie side by side with several iPaqs in direct sun
and played with every angle to the sun, and reflected them into my
black t-shirt for maximum contrast and that was my personal
conclusion. I forget the name for it, but the old iPaqs (3700 and
3850) have a screen that will sort of glow when held at the correct
angle to full sun. Under a cloud I wouldn't be surprised if Oudie was
as good or better. Maybe building a sun shade for the Oudie as I've
heard people talk about. One of the new Android phones has this kind
of screen which is recommend on the XCSoar forums.

... Aaron

akiley wrote:
I still occasionally get kicked out of the app and have to restart
it, but it happens less with each upgrade. That said, this type of
thing happens with SeeYou and iPaq too.

We expect that this does not happen at all, and we take every bug
report very serious. On Windows CE, the unstable operating system and
ancient flaky hardware is responsible for most crashes. But on
Android, once we get a good bug report, it's usually fairly easy to
fix.

What we need in a bug report is a "logcat" (Android's system log).
Install an app such as "CatLog" from the market. When XCSoar crashes,
use CatLog to save the log to a file. Upload that file to a bug
report on our bug tracker (http://www.xcsoar.org/trac/newticket).

Bugs don't get fixed magically, they only get fixed if users report
them to us.

(And thanks for praising XCSoar, all on the team are putting a lot of
sweat into it ...)

Max

On Sep 30, 2:29*am, Max Kellermann wrote:
akiley wrote:
I still occasionally get kicked out of the app and have to restart
it, but it happens less with each upgrade. *That said, this type of
thing happens with SeeYou and iPaq too.

We expect that this does not happen at all, and we take every bug
report very serious. *On Windows CE, the unstable operating system and
ancient flaky hardware is responsible for most crashes. *But on
Android, once we get a good bug report, it's usually fairly easy to
fix.

What we need in a bug report is a "logcat" (Android's system log).
Install an app such as "CatLog" from the market. *WhenXCSoarcrashes,
use CatLog to save the log to a file. *Upload that file to a bug
report on our bug tracker (http://www.xcsoar.org/trac/newticket).

Bugs don't get fixed magically, they only get fixed if users report
them to us.

(And thanks for praisingXCSoar, all on the team are putting a lot of
sweat into it ...)

Max

Thanks Max, I attempted to do a bug report a few months ago as per
your instructions on your forum. I downloaded catlog, but I couldn't
figure out what triggered it my crash. My luck, every time I ran
CatLog it wouldn't crash. For that reason I didn't do an "official"
bug report. But you fixed something because I've been using the 6.2.1
with no problems so far. Ran it for several hours today and a few
yesterday. Noticed you did several Android bug fixes with 6.2.1 and
that may have done the trick. Great App. ... Aaron