Garmin Price Fixing Post from other newsgroup

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
They pay US taxes on US earnings and Taiwan taxes on Taiwan earnings. I
don't think domiciling the company in the US would change things much.


Domiciling OUTSIDE the US? AIUI, they are now "domiciled" as being from
Ireland.

But yet, if they are a US company, it makes no difference where their HQ is,
other than maybe avoiding LOCAL taxes. A US company that does operations
overseas might pay taxes overseas and not in the US (portion of
income)...unless you're the Heinz Company....



Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
They haven't avoided paying any US taxes.

Mike
MU-2

Really?



"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote
in
message
...

Call it what it is, price fixing. They bought UPSAT (don't
really
know
why
UPS bought Apollo anyway.) Only a matter of time before Garmin
starts
playing nasty. They already started in my opinion with their
attitude
towards legacy product owners. I am a Garmin owner, but get a
real
slimy
feeling ever since they moved corporate off-shore to dodge
taxes.


Exactly what taxes have they avoided?

US taxes?

Right...

And that is why Arthur Andersen and KPMG and others made MILLION$$$ on
offshore banking / incorporation / tax schemes in the 90s...

In 1988, my old man paid more in taxes than ALL of Ashland Oil Corp, and
they were still US based.

It's all a game if you got the dough, lawyers, and accountants.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
They pay US taxes on US earnings and Taiwan taxes on Taiwan earnings. I
don't think domiciling the company in the US would change things much.

Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
They haven't avoided paying any US taxes.

Mike
MU-2

Really?



"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote
in
message
...

Call it what it is, price fixing. They bought UPSAT (don't
really
know
why
UPS bought Apollo anyway.) Only a matter of time before Garmin
starts
playing nasty. They already started in my opinion with their
attitude
towards legacy product owners. I am a Garmin owner, but get a
real
slimy
feeling ever since they moved corporate off-shore to dodge
taxes.


Exactly what taxes have they avoided?

US taxes?

Garmin was likely started in a garage like half the companies in the
world.
Why don't you start a company and give everything away, while giving great
service. We will see how long you last before the conspiracy theories
start.

Its pretty obvious you have a Naderite fear of businesses. If not, I would
love to know what you do. Doing business with you is either hell or
heaven.
I can't tell which.



Garmin was a fairly well financed start up by some PhD EEs if I recall.

I have no fear of business. I am against wasting money. If I pay a dollar to
a "top service dealer" for a product I can order on the 'net for 0.50, I
expect my ass to be kissed. If not, I better damned well see an extra 0.50
value in my doing business with him.

My point is, from my experience over the past 5 years, "quality services"
have largely disappeared across the board. Everything is becoming
commoditized. I made the mistake of going to a "highly regarded" paint shop
for their "Perfect Paint" system for my airplane. They shafted me so bad, I
would have been better off going for the lowest bidder. I just don't have
the time or patience for that kind of crap anymore. If I can't trust them to
get it right the first time, then I will just go cheap, or put a "liquidated
damages" clause in the contract.

Either I suck at selecting aviation-related service providers, or
statistically service has degraded across the board.

My last annual I went to a new IA that was "raved" by other owners. He never
did everything I asked for. I just left it at that. This is after being
raped by an IA in Florida last year.

So tell me again why I need to pay $1 from an "official dealer" when I can
get the same thing through the 'net for 0.50??? How is that bad business?

If Garmin is demanding I go through one of their "official dealers", I have
to ask if I really need a Garmin now, or just wait a few months for a price
drop or grey market or ebay.

Don't take my word for it, Garmin's financials are a matter of public
record.

Mike
MU-2


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
Right...

And that is why Arthur Andersen and KPMG and others made MILLION$$$ on
offshore banking / incorporation / tax schemes in the 90s...

In 1988, my old man paid more in taxes than ALL of Ashland Oil Corp, and
they were still US based.

It's all a game if you got the dough, lawyers, and accountants.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
They pay US taxes on US earnings and Taiwan taxes on Taiwan earnings. I
don't think domiciling the company in the US would change things much.

Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
They haven't avoided paying any US taxes.

Mike
MU-2

Really?



"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote
in
message
...

Call it what it is, price fixing. They bought UPSAT (don't
really
know
why
UPS bought Apollo anyway.) Only a matter of time before Garmin
starts
playing nasty. They already started in my opinion with their
attitude
towards legacy product owners. I am a Garmin owner, but get a
real
slimy
feeling ever since they moved corporate off-shore to dodge
taxes.


Exactly what taxes have they avoided?

US taxes?

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Don't take my word for it, Garmin's financials are a matter of public
record.

Mike
MU-2


As well, see: http://nationalreview.com/ponnuru/po...0404010842.asp and
http://www.techcentralstation.com/041504C.html


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in
message
...
Right...

And that is why Arthur Andersen and KPMG and others made MILLION$$$ on
offshore banking / incorporation / tax schemes in the 90s...

In 1988, my old man paid more in taxes than ALL of Ashland Oil Corp, and
they were still US based.

It's all a game if you got the dough, lawyers, and accountants.

Garmin was a fairly well financed start up by some PhD EEs if I recall.

I have no fear of business. I am against wasting money. If I pay a dollar
to
a "top service dealer" for a product I can order on the 'net for 0.50, I
expect my ass to be kissed. If not, I better damned well see an extra 0.50
value in my doing business with him.


You are acting perfectly rational, as you should as a player in the market.
The problem is that if Garmin is to have any hope of demanding quality from
its dealers, then they have to not do business with the ones that give away
product at a commodity price. No one can give full service at a commodity
price as a distributor. Your behavior is fair, and so is Garmin's. If I
were a distributor, and I saw Garmin's products for sale on the net for 50%
off, I would punt Garmin. I might also demand they take back anything I
could not sell.


My point is, from my experience over the past 5 years, "quality services"
have largely disappeared across the board. Everything is becoming
commoditized.

My point exactly, and a good part of the reason is too much price
information. I am not against the internet, but I think that businesses
have to react in some way if they want to have some control over the buyers'
experience. Garmin may not care how the product is moved, or they might.
But many places will not keep product in stock if they cannot get a good
margin. How many sales would Garmin lose if all the FBO's all carried AND
RECOMMENDED a competitor? It could happen if the competitor did a better
job of ensuring the FBO's were happy distributors.

I made the mistake of going to a "highly regarded" paint shop
for their "Perfect Paint" system for my airplane. They shafted me so bad,
I
would have been better off going for the lowest bidder. I just don't have
the time or patience for that kind of crap anymore. If I can't trust them
to
get it right the first time, then I will just go cheap, or put a
"liquidated
damages" clause in the contract.


I am not sure how come they are "highly regarded". When dealing with
service like paint and AP, you are best to use personal referrals whenever
possible. The only other hints are the professionalism they present in the
sales process, and the presentability of their literature, shop, etc.

None of these are sure things, but that has never changed. Price has not
necessaril been a quality indicator with these businesses. That is not new.
I am talking about Manufacturers and their distribution systems.

Either I suck at selecting aviation-related service providers, or
statistically service has degraded across the board.


I think every generation thinks that.

My last annual I went to a new IA that was "raved" by other owners. He
never
did everything I asked for. I just left it at that. This is after being
raped by an IA in Florida last year.

So tell me again why I need to pay $1 from an "official dealer" when I can
get the same thing through the 'net for 0.50??? How is that bad business?


You don't need to pay the dollar unless you want the product. If you can
get it for .50 then pay that. Just do not expect the guy who charges a
dollar, but also answers all your questions to stick around. He will go out
of business like the full service gas station.

If Garmin is demanding I go through one of their "official dealers", I
have
to ask if I really need a Garmin now, or just wait a few months for a
price
drop or grey market or ebay.


Waiting is fair, and eBay is fair. The grey market is Garmin's problem as
well, but they have a right to only warrant product with a clean record (
originally purchased from an authorized dealer). Their policy appears to be
to warrant everything. That may not last if the price policing does not
work. Eventually, all the big players try everything.