Landing a Mooney

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
Jon Kraus wrote:


We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.




Remember to KEEP THAT NOSE OFF! Too many Mooney drivers land too fast,
touch nosewheel first and wheelbarrow down the runway.

Proper flare technique is critical on a Mooney.

How about if you are "in" a Mooney? :-)


Matt

I don't mean to be a dutch uncle...but pahleeeeze! You're wimping out. Don't
give up! Buck up and battle it out. Just do it ... time and time again
until maybe it hurts but you'll do it..I know it, you know it and we all
know it.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Most of my time is high-wing but I've flown various
low-wing planes - SR20, Mooney, Grob, a couple of hours
in Cherokees. They all have something in common compared
to high-wing planes - they feel like they land flatter.
Don't try to full-stall them in a really nose-high
attitude. I managed to hit the tie-down ring in the SR20
doing that once. Of course when I say "flatter" I don't
mean "flat" - there is still a fair amount of nose-up
and the mains touch first but it is a different feeling
and sight picture than the Cessna.

Of course the other comments are all true too, especially
speed control.

John

Jon Kraus wrote:
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

I think you're most of the way there, in that you've correctly identified
the major issue. Once you've got the speed control mastered (which is
critical, as everyone has told you) it *is* all about sight picture and
knowing where the wheels are in relation to the runway. Mooneys are
particularly unflattering of bad landings because of the nature of the gear,
but no harder to land well.

Julian Scarfe

Julian Scarfe wrote:
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...


I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .


I think you're most of the way there, in that you've correctly identified
the major issue. Once you've got the speed control mastered (which is
critical, as everyone has told you) it *is* all about sight picture and
knowing where the wheels are in relation to the runway. Mooneys are
particularly unflattering of bad landings because of the nature of the gear,
but no harder to land well.

I'd add one more thing to the speed control notes. You want to be crossing the
threshold at 71 knots (M20J). On final, if you see you are high, try -raising-
the nose and scrubbing off 5 knots or so. It's counterintuitive, but you will
find raising the nose at this speed will increase your descent angle.

For a normal landing, cross the threshold at 71. For a short-field landing, 65.
Don't go any slower than that or you won't be able to flare. Don't go any
faster, or you'll float or bounce.

There's little shock absorrption in the landing gear, so don't let it touch when
you're going to fast or you'll be airborne again in a heartbeat, with a
wheelbarrow to follow.

I can relate. I just got my first few landings in a Comanche-250 the other
day. The downward pitch and apparent nose-scrubbing tendency was the biggest hurdle.
I normally land my Cherokee with 2 of the 3 notches of flaps to keep it from pitching
the nose down so much. With the speed of the Comanche (which I've heard is very
similar to the Mooney save for the strut/puck gear differences), all the flaps are
normally required. It seemed to be a matter of holding the (apparent nose-low)
attitute *by sight* before flaring to let the speed bleed off. Then the actual
touchdown was by feel once slow enough to not balloon and keep the nosewheel off.

YMMV... sure did like the 1500 fpm climb though...

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In article ,
wrote:
With the speed of the Comanche (which I've heard is very
similar to the Mooney save for the strut/puck gear differences), all the
flaps are
normally required. It seemed to be a matter of holding the (apparent nose-low)
attitute *by sight* before flaring to let the speed bleed off.

The transition from floating to landing can be abrupt. If you're a few
feet in the air when that happens you're going to plonk down (properly
inflated struts are important for this maneuver!).

If you round out to about 1' up you will have time to sense that final
sink and flare. You'll have to pull more than you think, otherwise
you'll just fall. This was tricky for me to get used to because if you
balloon it's followed abruptly by the aforementioned plonk. If it works
your touchdown attitude will be very nose-high. If you start to balloon
add power immediately. I found that my fly-just-above-the- runway
reflexes from the C172 led to a lot of ballooning early on.

What I prefer to do now is round out very low and fly as close to the
runway as possible so that the final sink/plonk is more gentle. This
is more like my C172 technique, but the results are much different from
a C172. A 172 will go slower and slower and more nose high until you
land. The Comanche will maintain essentially the same attitude until
you settle onto the runway.

Once you're down, either don't brake (you'll just skid) or raise the
flaps first. A lot of people are squeamish about the idea of touching
the flaps on the runway. If you want to stop in the shortest possible
distance you have no choice, IMO.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" wrote


The transition from floating to landing can be abrupt. If you're a few
feet in the air when that happens you're going to plonk down (properly
inflated struts are important for this maneuver!).

Ben Jackson

What Mooney has inflatable struts? All I have seen have rubber donuts.
Damn, those are hard to chew, and digest, too.
--
Jim in NC


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How tall are you? If you are not a very tall person you may be having a hard
time seeing over the cowl. The seats are very low in the Mooney since the
plane was designed for 6' + individuals.
What I like to do with students is to pull onto the runway and sit there
lined up with the runway (make sure the CFI is watching for traffic you have
your back too!). Really take the time to get used to the picture down the
runway with the plane on the ground. Notice where the runway edge intersects
your head (probably above your ears). Although some runways are more wide or
narrow the runway edge will always intersect your head at the same point
(its based only on your hight above the runway).
Also, when landing the Mooney understand that if the stall horn isn't even
going off you are far, far from landing speed. The Mooney will float and in
the begining you can use the stall horn to help determine when you should
allow the plane to sink below 3 feet. Anything faster than 65 knots or so
should be kept above 3 feet. The Mooney gets very upset if the nose wheel
touches first because there are no shocks. Because of the donut's
characteristics the nose will push back rather hard and bounce you back into
the air. You get 2 bounces for free, the 3rd will cost about $15,000.
As long as you control your speed in the Mooney, plan your decents far
enough out, and keep ahead of the plane you will find it a very nice, rather
easy plane to fly. It does not deserve the neg reputation it has for being
hard to fly.

-Robert, Mooney CFI


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

"Robert M. Gary" wrote

Really take the time to get used to
the picture down the runway with the plane on the ground.

Robert, I go one step further, I get out and hold the tail
down in order that the student can see (and hopefully retain)
the landing attitude.

Bob Moore