Garmin GNC 250XL

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:stqkd.321972$wV.301196@attbi_s54...

However, I've got an old Narco 120 Com that works fine but is getting
pretty
"long-in-the-tooth". I've also got an old Narco DME that works perfectly,
but is utterly useless to me.

I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on
Ebay,
and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that would be a
great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one before
making
the leap!

I do believe if you wanted to use the GPS as a DME, you'll need to have the
300XL installed IFR (which would mean you'd need to replace/add a CDI, etc.
as well as the requisite paperwork). I've thought about replacing one of my
old RT-385 Nav/Coms in the C152 for the same reasons you state in your
original post, but the cost of doing the IFR install have held me off from
doing it so far. I figure if I'm going to install a 300XL I should probably
go for the IFR cert, otherwise it's just better to go get a Garmin 296 and
buy one of those MX slide in replacement comms and still have three grand in
my pocket. I was told between the radio and install I was looking at $6,000
or so. At that point I figured why not go for the extra and get a 430, etc.
Just like anything else in aviation, there is always something better for
just a little bit more. I have been told that if you install a Garmin 430,
it is legal to install without the CDI because of the way it was approved
(at least you don't need the CDI for GPS use). I've never seen one that way,
they all have the CDI, but I think that's if you want to use the NAV
abilities for VORs, ILSes, etc. I might be able to get away with the 430
since I have ILS on my primary navcomm.

--
Louis L. Perley III
N46000 - C152
N370 - PA-23-250

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:50:11 -0700, "Louis L. Perley III"
wrote:


I do believe if you wanted to use the GPS as a DME, you'll need to have the
300XL installed IFR (which would mean you'd need to replace/add a CDI, etc.
as well as the requisite paperwork). I've thought about replacing one of my
old RT-385 Nav/Coms in the C152 for the same reasons you state in your
original post, but the cost of doing the IFR install have held me off from
doing it so far. I figure if I'm going to install a 300XL I should probably
go for the IFR cert, otherwise it's just better to go get a Garmin 296 and
buy one of those MX slide in replacement comms and still have three grand in
my pocket. I was told between the radio and install I was looking at $6,000
or so. At that point I figured why not go for the extra and get a 430, etc.
Just like anything else in aviation, there is always something better for
just a little bit more. I have been told that if you install a Garmin 430,
it is legal to install without the CDI because of the way it was approved
(at least you don't need the CDI for GPS use). I've never seen one that way,
they all have the CDI, but I think that's if you want to use the NAV
abilities for VORs, ILSes, etc. I might be able to get away with the 430
since I have ILS on my primary navcomm.

I think the GNS430 will still require a CDI for an IFR-install.
However, the 430 will not require the external swtiching/annunciator
panel that the 300XL will, so the install of a 430 is a bit cheaper
than a 300XL.

Also, if you are only looking for a GPS install, you should look at
GNS400 (basically a 430 with GPS only), or the GNC420 (GPS/COM).

he panel mount Garmin's display and functionality is so vastly inferior to
the AvMap, that I would certainly look at *it* as the back-up unit -- not the
other way around.

Yes I love the ease of read with the Avmap
However it would not be legal to fly approaches with it.
I do not have DME and a lot of approaches
require DME or GPS. I thought about installing the Garmin 430, but the 480 is
only 2K more.
To upgrade the 430 for Vertical and horizontal capability will be 1500, if and
when it becomes available.
Hank

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:29:28 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

You are not about to ditch your AvMap?

Ditch the Avmap? Heck, no!

The panel mount Garmin's display and functionality is so vastly inferior to
the AvMap, that I would certainly look at *it* as the back-up unit -- not
the other way around.

However, I've got an old Narco 120 Com that works fine but is getting pretty
"long-in-the-tooth". I've also got an old Narco DME that works perfectly,
but is utterly useless to me.

I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on Ebay,
and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that would be a
great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one before making
the leap!

Jay, as a reference -

I very much enjoy having DME in the plane in addition to my yoke-mount
Garmin 295. It is helpful for identifying intersections during IFR
enroute, and is a nice to have (if not a requirement) for many
approaches.

What am I getting at? Even though an IFR GPS can substitute for DME,
I am not sure that I would remove the DME, and I certainly would keep
it if I installed a panel-mount VFR GPS.

-Nathan

Nathan Young wrote:
: Jay, as a reference -

: I very much enjoy having DME in the plane in addition to my yoke-mount
: Garmin 295. It is helpful for identifying intersections during IFR
: enroute, and is a nice to have (if not a requirement) for many
: approaches.

Seconded. I like having my DME, my IFR GPS, and my 295. The DME is very
easy to interpret (OK, I'm 12.6 from PVD, so I'm well clear of their 'C').
The 'B' airspace around me is derived off the BOS vortac, so it's helpful
there as well. I usually use the IFR GPS for point-to-point navigation while
keeping the DME tuned to navaids off to the side such as the BOS vortac I
mentioned, helps to stay out of their airspace.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

: I very much enjoy having DME in the plane in addition to my yoke-mount
: Garmin 295. It is helpful for identifying intersections during IFR
: enroute, and is a nice to have (if not a requirement) for many
: approaches.

Seconded. I like having my DME, my IFR GPS, and my 295. The DME is very
easy to interpret (OK, I'm 12.6 from PVD, so I'm well clear of their 'C').
The 'B' airspace around me is derived off the BOS vortac, so it's helpful
there as well. I usually use the IFR GPS for point-to-point navigation
while
keeping the DME tuned to navaids off to the side such as the BOS vortac I
mentioned, helps to stay out of their airspace.

I know we all have our preferences, but DME seems to me to have been made
completely outmoded by the advent of moving map GPS.

My AvMap graphically depicts Class B airspace in a way that is so easily
understood, it would be virtually impossible to "bust" it without realizing
what you were doing. The DME would only confirm -- in a far less useful
format -- what the GPS is already telling me.

That, and the fact that I have no intention of getting my IFR ticket in the
near future, makes my Narco DME little more useful than a door stop in
Atlas. I *do* turn it on once in a while, just to see if it still powers
up -- but that's about it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I have one, and its okay for most uses.

I don't really like the map mode that much, but since I use it as a back up
that is okay. Also, sunlight readability is limited. I mostly use it like
an ADF or DME as a backup to my 430.

If I had it all to do over again, I would have gone for a 420 or second 430
and damn the costs. Having now flown with two 400 series slaved together, I
really think the ease and SA are worth the money.




"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:PWpkd.81189$R05.66884@attbi_s53...
Anyone got one of these units?

http://www.garmin.com/products/gnc250xl/

It seems to combine two very useful things (a VFR moving map GPS and a Com
radio) into one compact unit.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I agree with Dude. If you spring for the extra couple of thousand for a
Garmin GNS 430, you have ILS, NAV, Comm, IFR GPS, and legal replacement for
ADF and DME in most applications. Also, you have the option of upgrading to
WAAS next year if you get your instrument rating. I predict the 430 will be
supported for a much longer time than the GNC series. Also, the resale value
will be upgraded significantly.

Jay, if you wind up getting an instrument rating and the FAA happens to
certify an LPV for your airport, you'll be kicking yourself in the butt for
not spending the extra $$.

GO FOR IT! I did it and would do it again in a heartbeat. Atlas deserves it.

Marco Leon
N36616 (Lowly Warrior with a 430) :-D

"Dude" wrote in message
...
I have one, and its okay for most uses.

I don't really like the map mode that much, but since I use it as a back
up
that is okay. Also, sunlight readability is limited. I mostly use it like
an ADF or DME as a backup to my 430.

If I had it all to do over again, I would have gone for a 420 or second
430
and damn the costs. Having now flown with two 400 series slaved together,
I
really think the ease and SA are worth the money.




"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:PWpkd.81189$R05.66884@attbi_s53...
Anyone got one of these units?

http://www.garmin.com/products/gnc250xl/

It seems to combine two very useful things (a VFR moving map GPS and a
Com
radio) into one compact unit.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Not sure if it's the exact same unit but one of the rental birds I used
to fly had something that looked (it's been a while) like this. Very
nice unit, easy to use. Color and larger screen would be better (having
used both) but if this was all one could afford, IMHO, it's a nice unit

Jay Honeck wrote:

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, plan-to-be-IA-Student, flying club member/co-owner wanna-be

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jay:

I have a 250 in my 172 (came with it). Very easy to use, and intuitive. The
rental 172's I flew for a few years had the Bendix KLN-94 color, which gave
much more information.

As an example, the 250/300 do not include any geographic or road features.
Just dots on the map for the airports or radio aids (different dots,
though).

I've found the 250 easier to use menu/option wise compared to the Bendix.
More intuitive. As another user mentioned, when the sun is hitting the
screen dead-on, I sometimes have to shade the screen with my hand in order
to see what I'm looking for.

My neighbor has the Jepp Sky-? that let's you reprogram your own cards at a
slight discount from the card exchange that Jepp provides. If you don't get
a subscription, it's around $60 for the US, one-shot.

Given all that, I've really enjoyed it. I've considered getting a 300 to use
in addition to my 250, as the 250 is my only comm/navigation unit. Odd in
that my plane already has the CDI and switch connected to the 250, so I
guess I'm set up for IFR if I get the 300.

Carl


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:PWpkd.81189$R05.66884@attbi_s53...
Anyone got one of these units?

http://www.garmin.com/products/gnc250xl/

It seems to combine two very useful things (a VFR moving map GPS and a Com
radio) into one compact unit.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"