Talk About A Rude Company,

"C J Campbell" wrote in message

Good flight instructors are as picky about their students as good students
are picky of their flight instructors. If a student gives me the creeps,
is
rude, or has an attitude problem, he can take his business elsewhere.

It's a good idea to actually meet a potential customer before you pass
judgements on him.

=c

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message

Good flight instructors are as picky about their students as good
students
are picky of their flight instructors. If a student gives me the creeps,
is
rude, or has an attitude problem, he can take his business elsewhere.

It's a good idea to actually meet a potential customer before you pass
judgements on him.

Absolutely. Otherwise how would you know what kind of a guy he is?

C J Campbell wrote:

You certainly have triggered mine. Every instructor I know up here will
fly in actual. Of course, given the attitude, I suspect that it is simply
that nobody wants to fly with you.

There's one FBO in my area where an instructor (or anyone else) would need
to be a little nuts to take the planes into IMC. That part of the OP's
complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I know
nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...] That part of the OP's
complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I know
nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

Peter Duniho wrote:

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

Hmm. Then my next thought, given the context, is "burning bridges". Still,
sthompson's story is not that dissimilar to NW's.

Strange.

After many conversations with a couple of CFIs with whom I fly, I've come to
a conclusion: They're lousy businessmen. Believe it or not, they do all
they can to train their students in the most cost-effective way possible.
What the hell are they thinking?

Laugh

- Andrew

In article , Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...] That part of the OP's
complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I know
nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

I know CJ's in the Seattle area. IIRC NW's in the Portland, OR area.
Close enough, I guess. I had wound up with a little over 8 hours
actual IMC by the time I got my rating.

FWIW, I finished my IFR training with Spence Campbell over at BFI. He
specializes in IFR training and owns a sim shop at the airport. His
program integrates sim training with the flight training and he's got
tons of experience. www.serv.net/~atc

He's anything but fly-by-night, and I don't recall him having any qualms
about training in IMC (except partial panel). Icing, of course, is a bit
of a problem in the Seattle area in the winter.

HTH,


Morris

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

Right across the river from NW, I trained in and then passed my exam in IMC.

Piece of cake.

-c

Andrew Gideon wrote in
online.com:

C J Campbell wrote:

You certainly have triggered mine. Every instructor I know up here
will fly in actual. Of course, given the attitude, I suspect that it
is simply that nobody wants to fly with you.

There's one FBO in my area where an instructor (or anyone else) would
need to be a little nuts to take the planes into IMC. That part of the
OP's complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I
know nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

- Andrew



The thing that makes it incredible is his inability to provide an actual
reason for why no instructor will take a plane up in actual.

Had he said that the equipment at his FBO was not up to par, there would
have been no question by the remote Flight School, all other things being
equal. I'm sure a bunch of the r.a. regulars would have suggested he
switch to a different FBO...

I could be wrong, but I suspect that most CFIIs prefer to give their IFR
students SOME actual before the training is over. I know several of the
instructors that I have worked with in the past believed strongly that
the sensation of actual is unique for someone who has sat behind foggles
for all of his training, and prefer to be in the right seat the first
time it happens to a student.

The thought of an instructor refusing to fly in actual with a pilot
training for IFR smells of a pilot with a reputation for being unsafe.
And if he doesn't have a reasonable explanation for it, he may never have
really asked, and is just "kicking tires"...

In article , Judah wrote:

I could be wrong, but I suspect that most CFIIs prefer to give their IFR
students SOME actual before the training is over. I know several of the
instructors that I have worked with in the past believed strongly that
the sensation of actual is unique for someone who has sat behind foggles
for all of his training, and prefer to be in the right seat the first
time it happens to a student.

I've talked to CFIs who moved to Seattle specifically to get IMC time
for themselves. Of course they'll train in IMC.

OTOH, I'm not sure how eager a CFI would be taking someone up IMC during
the first, oh, 1/3 of the training, where you're just doing basic
attitude flying by instruments.

I remember days early on my IFR training, where we'd file to VFR on top, get
through the cloud layer, do the maneuvers, then shoot an instrument approach
back to base.


Morris

That's a fair statement that I didn't consider because of my own
experience.

It largely depends on what the student's experience level is. When I
started my IFR training, I had around 200 hours of flight time, mostly
PIC, mostly Cross Country. When I sat down with my instructor and the
syllabus, the first two flights took us through something like Lesson #22
because controlling the plane to IFR PTS tolerances was not an issue.

However, someone who has 75 hours of flight experience of which 65 hours
were training for his PPL is probably not going to be able to start with
the IFR training, and would probably not be a good candidate for
significant flight in the soup. (Flight through some a layer of Scattered
Cumulus might not be a bad thing even at that experience level though.)



Journeyman wrote in
:

In article , Judah wrote:

I could be wrong, but I suspect that most CFIIs prefer to give their
IFR students SOME actual before the training is over. I know several
of the instructors that I have worked with in the past believed
strongly that the sensation of actual is unique for someone who has
sat behind foggles for all of his training, and prefer to be in the
right seat the first time it happens to a student.

I've talked to CFIs who moved to Seattle specifically to get IMC time
for themselves. Of course they'll train in IMC.

OTOH, I'm not sure how eager a CFI would be taking someone up IMC
during the first, oh, 1/3 of the training, where you're just doing
basic attitude flying by instruments.

I remember days early on my IFR training, where we'd file to VFR on
top, get through the cloud layer, do the maneuvers, then shoot an
instrument approach back to base.


Morris