A Question for MU-2 Mike and other MU-2 Pilots

Actually, he thought that he did.

Mike
MU-2

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

Several years ago, I spent three days in recurrent training with another
MU-2 owner-pilot who was a former military test pilot as well as a Gemini
and Apollo astronaut. If HE felt that HE needed recurrent simulator
training to fly safely, what does that say about the rest of us?

Maybe he didn't -- his insurance could have made that decision for him.

Mike, just how different is it flying spoilers vice ailerons?

There is really no major difference except spoilers are more effective at
low speeds and don't "stiffen up" at high speeds. Spoilers also provide
effecive roll control in a stall and don't produce adverse yaw. On the MU-2
the relationship between control yoke movement and spoiler movement is such
that slightly more yoke movement is required than on most aircraft for the
same roll rate. It take people about 10hrs to get used to it. Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you can
neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler sticking up.

Mike
MU-2

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Mike, just how different is it flying spoilers vice ailerons?

Mike Rapoport wrote:
/snip/ Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you can
neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler sticking up.

Huh? Did you possibly mean *rudder* trim, or just how does the roll
trim work on that thing?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

There are electrically controlled ailerons for roll trim. Of course, you
also trim out the rudder forces too. The basic drill is feather the prop
then "357": three seconds of nose up elevator trim, five seconds of roll
trim and seven "handfulls" of rudder trim. There are a few more things but
none of them are critical.

Mike
MU-2


"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
/snip/ Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you can
neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler sticking up.

Huh? Did you possibly mean *rudder* trim, or just how does the roll trim
work on that thing?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

We got an MU-2 driver here in San Juan, he does it too.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually, he thought that he did.

Mike
MU-2

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

Several years ago, I spent three days in recurrent training with another
MU-2 owner-pilot who was a former military test pilot as well as a
Gemini and Apollo astronaut. If HE felt that HE needed recurrent
simulator training to fly safely, what does that say about the rest of
us?

Maybe he didn't -- his insurance could have made that decision for him.

Spoilers instead of ailerons _and_ electrically controlled ailerons for trim
on the wing? Man, what were the folks at Mitsubishi smoking the day they
came up with that one? I knew the MU-2 was different but I never realized
just how unorthodox it truly is...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
There are electrically controlled ailerons for roll trim. Of course, you
also trim out the rudder forces too. The basic drill is feather the prop
then "357": three seconds of nose up elevator trim, five seconds of roll
trim and seven "handfulls" of rudder trim. There are a few more things
but none of them are critical.

Mike
MU-2


"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
/snip/ Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you can
neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler sticking
up.

Huh? Did you possibly mean *rudder* trim, or just how does the roll trim
work on that thing?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

I guess they were smoking the good stuff! The design was dictated by the
desire to have both a high cruise speed and short takeoff and landing
distances. They way to get both was to have a small highly loaded wing (for
high speed) and full span, double slotted fowler flaps (for short
takeoff/landing). The full span flaps left no room for ailerons so they
used spoilers. I am pretty sure that the Mitsubishi Diamond (later became
the Beechjet when Raytheon bought the design.) used the same design. The
MU-2 was much faster than competing designs with the same fusilage size and
power. The new efficiency champ is the Piaggio with its three lifting
surfaces, (actually four since the fusilage provides lift too) and high wing
loading..

Mike
MU-2


"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
Spoilers instead of ailerons _and_ electrically controlled ailerons for
trim on the wing? Man, what were the folks at Mitsubishi smoking the day
they came up with that one? I knew the MU-2 was different but I never
realized just how unorthodox it truly is...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
There are electrically controlled ailerons for roll trim. Of course, you
also trim out the rudder forces too. The basic drill is feather the prop
then "357": three seconds of nose up elevator trim, five seconds of roll
trim and seven "handfulls" of rudder trim. There are a few more things
but none of them are critical.

Mike
MU-2


"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
/snip/ Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you
can neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler
sticking up.

Huh? Did you possibly mean *rudder* trim, or just how does the roll
trim work on that thing?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

Mike,

You seem to be a fan of the Piaggio. I don't know much about it but it
is different looking. What is it about the Piaggio that you like so much?
At it's price point you could get a jet. Does it have a higher useful load,
longer range than a comparable priced jet? Just curious.

Pete


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
I guess they were smoking the good stuff! The design was dictated by the
desire to have both a high cruise speed and short takeoff and landing
distances. They way to get both was to have a small highly loaded wing
(for high speed) and full span, double slotted fowler flaps (for short
takeoff/landing). The full span flaps left no room for ailerons so they
used spoilers. I am pretty sure that the Mitsubishi Diamond (later became
the Beechjet when Raytheon bought the design.) used the same design. The
MU-2 was much faster than competing designs with the same fusilage size and
power. The new efficiency champ is the Piaggio with its three lifting
surfaces, (actually four since the fusilage provides lift too) and high
wing loading..

Mike
MU-2


"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
Spoilers instead of ailerons _and_ electrically controlled ailerons for
trim on the wing? Man, what were the folks at Mitsubishi smoking the day
they came up with that one? I knew the MU-2 was different but I never
realized just how unorthodox it truly is...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
There are electrically controlled ailerons for roll trim. Of course,
you also trim out the rudder forces too. The basic drill is feather the
prop then "357": three seconds of nose up elevator trim, five seconds of
roll trim and seven "handfulls" of rudder trim. There are a few more
things but none of them are critical.

Mike
MU-2


"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
/snip/ Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you
can neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler
sticking up.

Huh? Did you possibly mean *rudder* trim, or just how does the roll
trim work on that thing?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

It is an elegent solution. Instead of having a horizontal stabilizer
producing downforce and the wing having to overcome that as well as the
weight of the plane, the Piaggio uses three "wing" surfaces that all produce
lift. In addition, the fusilage is curved over its entire length and
produces lift as well. Most pressurized fusilages are a tube with a couple
of cones riveted on. I don't think that there is a jet that has close to
the Piaggios cabin size for anywhere near the money. It is also very quiet.
It has more range, cabin room and consumes much less fuel than anything in
the same price range. The new Avanti II with glass cockpit, reduced empty
weight and increased gross weight will have even greater advantages over
comparable jets. It is also beautiful.

Mike
MU-2



"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:doCyd.4870$k25.4775@attbi_s53...
Mike,

You seem to be a fan of the Piaggio. I don't know much about it but it
is different looking. What is it about the Piaggio that you like so much?
At it's price point you could get a jet. Does it have a higher useful
load,
longer range than a comparable priced jet? Just curious.

Pete


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
I guess they were smoking the good stuff! The design was dictated by the
desire to have both a high cruise speed and short takeoff and landing
distances. They way to get both was to have a small highly loaded wing
(for high speed) and full span, double slotted fowler flaps (for short
takeoff/landing). The full span flaps left no room for ailerons so they
used spoilers. I am pretty sure that the Mitsubishi Diamond (later became
the Beechjet when Raytheon bought the design.) used the same design. The
MU-2 was much faster than competing designs with the same fusilage size
and power. The new efficiency champ is the Piaggio with its three lifting
surfaces, (actually four since the fusilage provides lift too) and high
wing loading..

Mike
MU-2


"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
Spoilers instead of ailerons _and_ electrically controlled ailerons for
trim on the wing? Man, what were the folks at Mitsubishi smoking the day
they came up with that one? I knew the MU-2 was different but I never
realized just how unorthodox it truly is...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
There are electrically controlled ailerons for roll trim. Of course,
you also trim out the rudder forces too. The basic drill is feather
the prop then "357": three seconds of nose up elevator trim, five
seconds of roll trim and seven "handfulls" of rudder trim. There are a
few more things but none of them are critical.

Mike
MU-2


"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
/snip/ Also, In the
event of an engine failure you want to use the roll trim so that you
can neutralize the yoke because you don't want to have a spoiler
sticking up.

Huh? Did you possibly mean *rudder* trim, or just how does the roll
trim work on that thing?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054