What engine would you like?

Bob,

I'm figuring to get a bit more than 300 to 400 hours on my engine.


And the cylinder heads? For the higher powered engines we have, a top
overhaul after 400 hours is nothing unusual at all. With a 1800 or so
hours TBO, if that ain't broken, I don't know what is.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert ) wrote:

And the cylinder heads? For the higher powered engines we have, a top
overhaul after 400 hours is nothing unusual at all. With a 1800 or so
hours TBO, if that ain't broken, I don't know what is.

The IO-520 that was just removed from my Bonanza got somewhere around
2400 hours on it before a small crack in one of the cylinders put the
first and last nail in the engine's coffin.

Prior to the crack, the cylinders were all still producing excellent
compression ratios. As far as I know, no overhaul was ever done on
them. BTW, these were Continental cylinders manufactured in the late
80s.

I certainly do not expect to have to perform a top overhaul on the new
engine's Superior Millennium after 400 hours.

--
Peter

Peter,

BTW, these were Continental cylinders manufactured in the late
80s.


That may be the secret.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

wrote:
What would be the ideal configuration for an aircraft engine, given
contemporary technology?

1. Start at 0 degrees F with no fuss?
Although I have never tried to start my Lycoming 0360 at that
temperature, it may very well start just fine. With expensive aircraft
engines there is just too much wear with cold starts to do it. Get a
preheat. Which leads to installed preheat devices and perhaps a
pre-oiler
2. Water cooling for dependable cabin heat?
There is actually plenty of heat available from air cooled if they
would just deliver it. A FAN would be a terrific new age idea.
3. Automatic mixture control for altitude & power?
With automation comes complexity. Personally I see no reason to
automate this. How hard is it to lean to a temperature. All you need is
a digital EGT.
4. Automatic timing control?
Great idea along with electronic ignition making hotter spark
(capacitive discharge). Actually available from Unison now as an STC.
5. Jet fuel (availability)?
I'll stick with gas, thanks. You can get it at out of the way airports.
6. Piston (for economy)?
7. Choice of RPM at cruise for same power?
Constant speed prop does just that.

I believe that delivering brand new airplanes with 1940s engines
makes
no sense whatever.
Well, it actually does. Although water cooling would allow closer
tolerences and more power, you would have to have geared engine to prop
because you need higher rpm to get the power. Again more complexity and
more weight. Probably not worth it. One thing about the existing
Lycosaurs and Contibrasaurus engines is they are simple. No emissions
stuff, simple mechanical fuel injection or carburetion, simple
mechanical magnetos. This all makes for reliability. These engines are
really all that bad. And they are light. If you look at car engines,
they are heavier for given horsepower. And one thing we definitely
don't need is heavier engines. Even though water cooling (or active
oil cooling) would make more horsepower, I wonder if after the weight
is considered if it would make more horsepower per pound of engine,
which really is the key factor. That and reliability.

A fancy engine that quits or gives trouble with high maintenance is not
an improvement. My Lycoming 0-360 has 2150 hours on it and has never
needed service. Never even had the valve covers off. I have had to
replace accessories. This is actually fairly typical if you do the oil
changes and are careful about how you start and run the engine.

Much to our modern technology chagrin, the designers of these engines
got a lot of things right. They work pretty damn well.

1. Start at 0 degrees F with no fuss?
Although I have never tried to start my Lycoming 0360 at that
temperature, it may very well start just fine. With expensive aircraft
engines there is just too much wear with cold starts to do it. Get a
preheat. Which leads to installed preheat devices and perhaps a
pre-oiler

That would satisfy my definition of "fuss". A more "turn key" power plant
would do a lot to bring in more buyers.

2. Water cooling for dependable cabin heat?
There is actually plenty of heat available from air cooled if they
would just deliver it. A FAN would be a terrific new age idea.

There would seem to be other ways to get more heat. Water cooling has other
advantages and disadvantages. I see this as a solution not a benefit.

3. Automatic mixture control for altitude & power?
With automation comes complexity. Personally I see no reason to
automate this. How hard is it to lean to a temperature. All you need is
a digital EGT.

If you can reduce complexity for the pilot with little cost in other areas,
its a plus. Less to do is more safety overall.

4. Automatic timing control?
Great idea along with electronic ignition making hotter spark
(capacitive discharge). Actually available from Unison now as an STC.

Would seem to be a good feature. I just want to be confident that my engine
is running properly and efficiently without my having to fiddle with it.

5. Jet fuel (availability)?
I'll stick with gas, thanks. You can get it at out of the way airports.

Availibility will likely solve itself. If the better engine runs on
grapefruit juice, then you will start seeing grapefruit juice at the pumps.
I just want to get away from 100LL and move to something cheaper which juice
isn't likely to be

6. Piston (for economy)?

Piston, Rotary, Nuclear, I don't care. I want it to work, and I want the
guy at the airport to be able to fix it.

7. Choice of RPM at cruise for same power?
Constant speed prop does just that.

Yep


I believe that delivering brand new airplanes with 1940s engines
makes
no sense whatever.
Well, it actually does.

Well, it do and it don't. Does it make sense for women in Afghanistan to
wear Burkhas? We use Lycontinentals because we always have. Its a weird
economic/technological hole we are in, and the only way out will likely cost
much money.


Although water cooling would allow closer
tolerences and more power, you would have to have geared engine to prop
because you need higher rpm to get the power. Again more complexity and
more weight. Probably not worth it. One thing about the existing
Lycosaurs and Contibrasaurus engines is they are simple. No emissions
stuff, simple mechanical fuel injection or carburetion, simple
mechanical magnetos. This all makes for reliability.

Um, I have to disagree. I know all the reasons why we settle for the
reliability we have, and I am all for simplicity. However, my Toyota is
still a lot more reliable even if it is more complex. I know, I know, I
know! Its not stressed to the limits like my Lycoming. So what! It has been
improved to the point that it exceeds my needs. Those who keep making
excuses for the engine industry need to just bite their tongues so they will
get off their arses and improve.

These engines are
really all that bad. And they are light. If you look at car engines,
they are heavier for given horsepower. And one thing we definitely
don't need is heavier engines. Even though water cooling (or active
oil cooling) would make more horsepower, I wonder if after the weight
is considered if it would make more horsepower per pound of engine,
which really is the key factor. That and reliability.


A really good point, and why I don't care about how my engine is cooled,
just that I start seeing improvement at greater than glacier speed.

A fancy engine that quits or gives trouble with high maintenance is not
an improvement.

Thats true, but you are implying that anything new and better would be more
trouble and maintenance. That is not necessily true.

My Lycoming 0-360 has 2150 hours on it and has never
needed service. Never even had the valve covers off. I have had to
replace accessories. This is actually fairly typical if you do the oil
changes and are careful about how you start and run the engine.


Accessories are not seperate in my mind. And I think you are in the
minority. Every starter, pump, or electrical failure is a power plant
failure to me. Also, you have had an exceptional experience with what is the
best example of current reliability (the 360). Why you find an engine that
could quit due to carb ice as acceptable in the 21st century is beyond me.


Much to our modern technology chagrin, the designers of these engines
got a lot of things right. They work pretty damn well.


I give them their proper and due respect. I thank them. Now, where is the
next generation? Why are a bunch of people not content to travel on the
ground content to see no progress in engine technology?

"Dude" wrote in message
...

Much to our modern technology chagrin, the designers of these engines
got a lot of things right. They work pretty damn well.


I give them their proper and due respect. I thank them. Now, where is
the
next generation? Why are a bunch of people not content to travel on the
ground content to see no progress in engine technology?


Because the one thing none of these designs are promising yet is the only
one that really matters to most of us: cost.

The diesels make sense in Europe where 100LL costs more than grand cru
Burgundy but to me they look like a gamble wired in to my bank account. This
is subject to change as they prove themselves.

As for the comparison to auto engines, I used to think it made the Lycosaurs
look bad, but if you look at the experimental crowd, they've been playing
with auto conversions for years and it's hard to say what it's gotten them
other than something to tinker with endlessly while they're not flying. The
majority of experimentals that are built for the sake of flying are built
with the same 1940s engines the rest of us use. Plenty of these "amateur
experimentals" are built by people who know as much about engines as any
professional, though they do work with far smaller budgets.

About the only serious problem I see with current technology is the
dependence on 100LL, which is going to disappear long before most of us do.
The rest is just pet peeves.

-cwk.

. My Lycoming 0-360 has 2150 hours on it and has never
needed service. Never even had the valve covers off. I BRBR


Uhh, then you have NOT been following the maintenance schedule from Lycoming.

Lycosaurs and Contibrasaurus engines is they are simple. No emissions
stuff, simple mechanical fuel injection or carburetion, simple
mechanical magnetos. This all makes for reliability. These engines are
really all that bad. And they are light. If you look at car engines,
they are heavier for given horsepower. And BRBR


I'll agree with simple, but not more reliable.

Magneto's are not as reliable as modern day, no moving parts electronic
ignition.

I would have no objection to adding emmissions control systems to the aircraft
engine either.

A fully dressed Chevrolet LS1 engine (98-04 Corvette engine) with a constant
speed prop, gear reduction unit, radiator, computer, coolant and oil weighs
less than 10lbs more than a IO360 with constant speed prop and produces MORE
power, less fuel consumption and less maintenance.


--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

I'm figuring to get a bit more than 300 to 400 hours on my engine.

And the cylinder heads?

I expect to the cylinders to last to TBO as well.

For the higher powered engines we have, a top
overhaul after 400 hours is nothing unusual at all.

I don't have a high power engine, just the 160hp O-320.

With a 1800 or so
hours TBO, if that ain't broken, I don't know what is.

1800 hours TBO is broke? Then we have different ideas
of broke.

note that I figure to reach calender TBO of 12 years before
getting 2000 hours on my freshly overhauled engine.

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

nuke wrote:
A fully dressed Chevrolet LS1 engine (98-04 Corvette engine) with a
constant
speed prop, gear reduction unit, radiator, computer, coolant and oil
weighs
less than 10lbs more than a IO360 with constant speed prop and
produces MORE
power, less fuel consumption and less maintenance.

Grooooaaan. Oh what the hell. Cool. Can you find some use for the 4 on
the floor?
I bet when it's done, it will go at least 300 knots. Damn aircraft
companies. If only they'd put in a 'vette engine. Must be in cahoots
with the oil companies. Let us know when you get it flying. Man... a
'vette!! Damn cool. I'm going to put a HARLEY engine in my
experimental! Top THAT!

Doug wrote:

'vette!! Damn cool. I'm going to put a HARLEY engine in my
experimental! Top THAT!

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but for the benefit of those readers who haven't yet...
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