Antidepressants and 3rd Class Medical

"William Plummer" wrote:

Suppose you have an accident. The NTSB _will_ check to
see what prescriptions you got filled. If you used a banned
drug and did not disclose that fact, your medical certificate
will be declared invalid and you were flying illegally. The
insurance company and lawyers will line up sharpening
their knives.

NTSB reports are not admissible in legal proceedings.

Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:

Toks Desalu wrote:
If a pilot has current 3rd class medical, and then
begins taking antidepressants, you are required to void your certificate
VOLUNTARILY according to FAA regulation.

What FAA regulation would this be? Can you provide a reference?

There isn't one, except through 61.53 by a back door route.

My understanding is: don't act as PIC while suffering from a medical
condition or taking medication which preclude safe flight or which
are not approved by FAA. When the condition is ameliorated and
the medication is out of one's system, go for it.

Your understanding is a bit off. The applicable FAR 61.53
only mentions safety if a medical is *not* required to act
as PIC (gliders, etc.) If a medical *is* required, the
standard is whether you can "meet the requirements for the
medical certificate."

IOW, let's say you take a medication. If you are safe to
fly while taking it, you can fly a glider, even while taking
it. If the medical requirements prohibit granting you a
medical when you have the underlying condition , then you
can't fly an airplane, even if you are safe, regardless of
whether you are taking the medication.

The tests are totally different for PIC where a medical is
req'd and PIC where it is not. One looks at safety and
allows the pilot to make the determination, the other looks
at the medical regulations.


Todd Pattist
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However, isn't it true that if you are in an accident, and insurers
find out you've been violating FARs (by flying without a valid
medical), then they won't pay? So you could be wide open to
liability.

"Mike Granby" writes:

"Maule Driver" wrote:

Fortunately, you do have the room to manage your health and
the FAA by maintaining separate medical relationships. But with
that ability comes a great deal of responsibility.

Indeed. I would nonetheless advise that no-one use their family doctor as
their AME. While none of us wants to lie to the FAA, I see no reason to
tempt fate by vesting these functions in the same individual, and I see no
reason to have to worry about what I tell my family doctor on the basis that
he might have to declare it to the FAA under penalty of losing his
certification.

--
Mike Granby, PP-ASEL,IA
Warrior N44578
http://www.mikeg.net/plane

Todd Pattist wrote in message . ..
Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:

Toks Desalu wrote:
If a pilot has current 3rd class medical, and then
begins taking antidepressants, you are required to void your certificate
VOLUNTARILY according to FAA regulation.

What FAA regulation would this be? Can you provide a reference?

There isn't one, except through 61.53 by a back door route.

I think there isn't one, period.

My understanding is: don't act as PIC while suffering from a medical
condition or taking medication which preclude safe flight or which
are not approved by FAA. When the condition is ameliorated and
the medication is out of one's system, go for it.

Your understanding is a bit off. The applicable FAR 61.53
only mentions safety if a medical is *not* required to act
as PIC (gliders, etc.) If a medical *is* required, the
standard is whether you can "meet the requirements for the
medical certificate."

I don't think my understanding is off a bit.

The standard is whether you can "meet the requirements for the
medical certificate", true.

If you can't, don't fly.

But that's not the issue.

The issue is, Toks claims you have to "void your medical
certificate voluntarily" and be re-examined and have a new
certificate issued when the condition ameliorates.

If the medical requirements prohibit granting you a
medical when you have the underlying condition , then you
can't fly an airplane, even if you are safe, regardless of
whether you are taking the medication.

No argument. But that's not the issue here.

I want to know where it's required that one "void one's
medical certificate", rather than simply refraining from
flying while unable to meet the requirements of the medical
certificate, and resuming flight when one can.

Cheers,
Sydney

On 19 Jul 2003 18:43:26 -0700, (Snowbird)
wrote:

Todd Pattist wrote in message . ..
Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:

snip

If the medical requirements prohibit granting you a
medical when you have the underlying condition , then you
can't fly an airplane, even if you are safe, regardless of
whether you are taking the medication.

No argument. But that's not the issue here.

I want to know where it's required that one "void one's
medical certificate", rather than simply refraining from
flying while unable to meet the requirements of the medical
certificate, and resuming flight when one can.

I've never heard of such a rule and I don't think it exists.
It may, but I seriously doubt it.
You just don't fly while the condition exists.

For example, you get a really bad head cold and have to take
antihistamines. That's disqualifying, but who in their right mind
would expect the pilot to void the medical certificate and then take a
new exam when over the cold.

OTOH any one who goes flying as PIC with a really bad head cold
probably would be disqualified under the mental case....

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Cheers,
Sydney

I've been following this thread, since my 3rd class was issued by Warren
Silberman himself, after a 9 month wait, because I checked the box that
said: "now have suffered or have ever suffered migraine headaches"...
Though I'd had only a few in my life, I am now required to get and submit a
full neurologic examination each time I renew my medical.

Anyways, long story short, my letter from him after 9 months of waiting said
I was qualified for the certificate, but issued a special caution to abide
by FAR 61.53, and re-stating that "operation of aircraft is prohibited [to
me] at any time new symptoms or adverse changes occur." So, I am prohibited
to fly while I have a migraine (or feel one coming on, I guess)... Go
figure!!

By the way, I found soloce on Gene Whitt's "Medical From Hell" webpages (he
also calls these pages "The Silberman Files") that might interest some of
you: http://www.whittsflying.com/pagee51%...rom%20Hell.htm

Regards,

-- Marty

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On 19 Jul 2003 18:43:26 -0700, (Snowbird)
wrote:

Todd Pattist wrote in message
. ..
Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:

snip

If the medical requirements prohibit granting you a
medical when you have the underlying condition , then you
can't fly an airplane, even if you are safe, regardless of
whether you are taking the medication.

No argument. But that's not the issue here.

I want to know where it's required that one "void one's
medical certificate", rather than simply refraining from
flying while unable to meet the requirements of the medical
certificate, and resuming flight when one can.

I've never heard of such a rule and I don't think it exists.
It may, but I seriously doubt it.
You just don't fly while the condition exists.

For example, you get a really bad head cold and have to take
antihistamines. That's disqualifying, but who in their right mind
would expect the pilot to void the medical certificate and then take a
new exam when over the cold.

OTOH any one who goes flying as PIC with a really bad head cold
probably would be disqualified under the mental case....

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Cheers,
Sydney

(Snowbird) wrote:

There isn't one, except through 61.53 by a back door route.

I think there isn't one, period.

I've been through this argument before, when someone was
told his medical was "void" after a medical episode. During
that argument, I was on your side :-) The "back door route"
I'm referring to is that 61.53 won't let you fly if you
can't meet the requirements for a medical, but sometimes
those requirements say that after a medical episode, you
have to be have a particular test and be re-examined and
only if you have the test and pass the re-exam will you be
permitted to fly. The re-exam, however counts as a new
medical and resets the date for your next medical. Is the
first medical void? No, not really, you could probably say
to the doc that you don't want a new one, but practically,
who would do that? It's pretty clear however, that until
you have the test and get the new test, you don't meet the
conditions for a medical, and until you do, you can't fly,
regardless of how safe you are.

My understanding is: don't act as PIC while suffering from a medical
condition or taking medication which preclude safe flight or which
are not approved by FAA. When the condition is ameliorated and
the medication is out of one's system, go for it.

Your understanding is a bit off. The applicable FAR 61.53
only mentions safety if a medical is *not* required to act
as PIC (gliders, etc.) If a medical *is* required, the
standard is whether you can "meet the requirements for the
medical certificate."

I don't think my understanding is off a bit.

I do. You used "preclude safe flight" to determine when you
can fly. That's not the FAR standard. Their standard is
"meet the requirements" for a medical.

But that's not the issue.

I didn't say it was the issue. I said your description of
when you can fly was "a bit off" since it referred to
"safety."

The issue is, Toks claims you have to "void your medical
certificate voluntarily" and be re-examined and have a new
certificate issued when the condition ameliorates.

Which I agree, is not true, but via the back door, described
above, there are some conditions for which the practical
effect is exactly that - no flight until you pass a new
medical

If the medical requirements prohibit granting you a
medical when you have the underlying condition , then you
can't fly an airplane, even if you are safe, regardless of
whether you are taking the medication.

No argument. But that's not the issue here.

Agreed. I was commenting on your shorthand description,
which I thought "was a bit off."

I want to know where it's required that one "void one's
medical certificate", rather than simply refraining from
flying while unable to meet the requirements of the medical
certificate, and resuming flight when one can.

No, it's not required, unless the FAA requires a new medical
after the medical condition you suffer from. I know it's a
technical point, but pilots have been hung on less. You
need to be able to pass a medical. If the requirements for
people with your condition are to pass a medical test that
you haven't had and then have that test reviewed by an AME
during a new medical exam, and that hasn't been done, then
you can't fly until you've gone through all that, no matter
what your physician says about your condition or your
"safety" during flight.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
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