Can I bill my airplane travel expenses to a client?

Michael 182 wrote:
I have a PPL, no commercial. I travel for my consulting busines, which I
own. Can I bill my client some reasonable rate for travel expenses when I
use my plane? I am not using the plane to generate income, it is tangential
to my business, which happens to be technology litigation consulting.

Michael,

Your best bet is probably to run this question by AOPA and your
accountant.

In contrast to some other responses on this thread, I don't think
the FAA cares (I'm assuming it's just you flying, and not you putting
your clients in the plane and flying them to another locale).
I think it's between you, the client and (if tax issues are
involved) possibly the IRS.

I think if you bill the client a rate commensurate with gov't
milage for driving, or with a commercial airline ticket purchased
on the same time scale, no one will look twice, neither your
client nor the IRS nor the FAA.

I think if your actual flight expenses are significantly higher
than driving or commercial flight, the client might object if you
bill them for the whole thing, but that's between you and the client.

The FAA cares deeply that private pilots not "hold forth" to the
public to provide transportation. Thus the rules that the pilot
can only be reimbursed for certain specified actual expenses such
as fuel and oil, or rental fees, and even then only a pro-rated
share with the pilot paying his part, and that even receiving
logged time can be construed as "compensation". And the flight
must meet other tests, such as you having reasons of your own
to travel to your destination, not going there simply to transport
others.

But if it's just you in the plane, I don't think the FAA cares
how you're funding your "flight addiction": working 9-to-5,
billing the client for reasonable transportation expenses,
inherited wealth, whatever.

The followup question is, if I can't bill the expense, would I be able to if
I got the simplest level of a commercial license?

The commercial license would change the issues if you are flying
others, but I don't think it's relevant if the question is you
traveling on business.

Good luck,
Sydney

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 16:27:28 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:

The commercial license would change the issues if you are flying
others, but I don't think it's relevant if the question is you
traveling on business.

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he then
deduct the expenses for the training?

#m
--
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Martin Hotze wrote:

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he then
deduct the expenses for the training?

No. The education is not required for the job.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 13:03:24 -0400, G.R. Patterson III wrote:



Martin Hotze wrote:

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he then
deduct the expenses for the training?

No. The education is not required for the job.


hm, my cell phone is not really a requirement for the job, but it helps
doing it - I can deduct it. So, reaching clients easier, quicker, .... also
helps - maybe this qualifies for deducting, too.

#m

--
http://www.usawatch.org/ http://www.alternet.org/
Don't like your neighbor? - https://tips.fbi.gov/

Bombing for peace is like ****ing for virginity.

Your cell phone is not education or training. You can deduct education and
training that relate to your current job but not for a new job. So training
for the instrument rating would be deductible for a pilot who uses an
airplane for business.travel. Training for a commercial certificate would
not be deductible since that is training for a different occupation. If
someone is a commercial pilot, then training for the ATP would be
deductible.

Mike
MU-2


"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 13:03:24 -0400, G.R. Patterson III wrote:



Martin Hotze wrote:

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems
out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he
then
deduct the expenses for the training?

No. The education is not required for the job.


hm, my cell phone is not really a requirement for the job, but it helps
doing it - I can deduct it. So, reaching clients easier, quicker, ....
also
helps - maybe this qualifies for deducting, too.

#m

--
http://www.usawatch.org/ http://www.alternet.org/
Don't like your neighbor? - https://tips.fbi.gov/

Bombing for peace is like ****ing for virginity.

hm, my cell phone is not really a requirement for the job, but it helps
doing it - I can deduct it. So, reaching clients easier, quicker, .... also
helps - maybe this qualifies for deducting, too.

You can deduct the cost of a cell phone used on business (if it isn't
your only phone!). But you can't deduct the cost of a class that
trains you on how to use your cell phone.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he then
deduct the expenses for the training?

No. The education is not required for the job.

The general rule on education is that you can't deduct the expenses of
preparing for a better-paying job, or even for a different job, but
only if the training is required for you to hold your present job. One
of those nutty rules that come from splitting hairs.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems
out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he
then
deduct the expenses for the training?

No. The education is not required for the job.

The general rule on education is that you can't deduct the expenses of
preparing for a better-paying job, or even for a different job, but
only if the training is required for you to hold your present job. One
of those nutty rules that come from splitting hairs.

Because when they let you train for a _different_ job, they wind up with a
lot of "professional students" who just, somehow, never manage to get into
the new field.

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 16:27:28 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:


The commercial license would change the issues if you are flying
others, but I don't think it's relevant if the question is you
traveling on business.

You better have commercial insurance on the plane too.

"61.113 (b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in
command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:"



I know this is a little off track on this thread but this brings up a
question that has been bugging me for 14 years now,



My accountant will not allow me to write off a plane to travel to the office
1,200 miles distance from my home, instead of a long 2 day drive. Although I
believe it is to get to work on a more "timely and rested manner" He does
give the mileage on my truck but wont budge on the plane. My company ( I am
8.5 % part owner) will not pay for the travel and especially the flight.
Does anybody know if I could write off the plane before actually making
money for the company or is he telling the truth??



Pat Thronson PP ASEL

Babb, MT