Permit me a moment, please, to say...

I wonder, from anyone who knows the region [Mt. St. helens]: is that a characteristic
of the area? I recall we had a southwesterly flow that day, with winds
aloft from the south at 20 knots or so. Any way to predict that
region?

I was up there on Saturday, too, the wind was more like 220@40 at 10K.
Strong SW flow, fairly typical for this weather pattern. There tends
to be a very strong downdraft on the lee side of the mountain (usually
NE side). Flying *over* the rim can be a fun ride (northbound only!),
but make sure you have plenty of room, the downdraft inside the crater
can be quite spectacular.

Martin

On 22 Oct 2003 16:47:35 -0700, (Martin Kosina)
wrote:

I was up there on Saturday, too, the wind was more like 220@40 at 10K.
Strong SW flow, fairly typical for this weather pattern. There tends
to be a very strong downdraft on the lee side of the mountain (usually
NE side). Flying *over* the rim can be a fun ride (northbound only!),
but make sure you have plenty of room, the downdraft inside the crater
can be quite spectacular.

That must be the reason for the three mile 3000 AGL recommendation,
which I've never tried to bust.

If things clear up I'm probably going back today.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:06 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

| You did, of course, check out the Special Notices in the AIM about
circling
| the mountain, like no closer than three miles and 3000 ft agl?
|
| (Checking my sectional)

It is not in the AIM. Bob must have meant the A/FM.

I found it in the A/FD in the Special Notices section (is there an
online A/FD anywhere?). I've never busted that guideline; it never
made sense to me to tempt fate. My old CFI scoffed at it, calling it
all kinds of little names.

A couple minutes later I related this thread's story to him, and he
had a very bad reaction, and gave me a 10 minute verbal spanking for
having gone in the first place, a real confidence buster. So now I'm
left wondering if I'm a fool, and how to reconcile scoffing at the
Special Notice with scolding a former student, and whether things
could have gone much worse than they did, given my course line that
day.

(Southwesterly flow between 20 and 40 knots at 10,000, an AIRMET for
turbulence below FL150, 50 mile visibility with a 12,000 foot ceiling.
I kept 4 to 5 nm from the summit, and didn't fight the updraft or
downdraft or slow my airspeed. And there was no turbulence at all for
the whole flight. The first bump and the plan of action was to cut and
run.)

Opinions? I'm more than willing to be much *more* careful and can use
all the info about the region I can get. But I don't think I'll be
sending that CFI any more business: Even if you're dead on right you
don't scold grownups for 10 minutes without *some* consequence; good
grief! How do you live in the Northwest and not cover mountain
flying??

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

"Robert Perkins" wrote in message
...
I found it in the A/FD in the Special Notices section (is there an
online A/FD anywhere?).

Closest thing I've seen to an online A/FD is the airport and navaid database
at www.airnav.com. They have what appears to me to be the data for each
airport straight from the FAA's A/FD database. But I don't think they have
any of the other A/FD data.

A couple minutes later I related this thread's story to him, and he
had a very bad reaction, and gave me a 10 minute verbal spanking for
having gone in the first place, a real confidence buster. So now I'm
left wondering if I'm a fool, and how to reconcile scoffing at the
Special Notice with scolding a former student, and whether things
could have gone much worse than they did, given my course line that
day.

I don't understand. Was he lecturing you because of the winds? Certainly
reason to be cautious, but I don't see any reason to avoid the flight
entirely just because of the forecast. You had a backup plan (which is,
regardless of forecast conditions, an important element of ANY flight), and
found the flight conditions to be quite flyable and enjoyable. Seems to me,
that's exactly how it should be.

What the CFI could possibly have found to fill 10 minutes with, I have no
idea.

Pete

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:50:40 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

What the CFI could possibly have found to fill 10 minutes with, I have no
idea.

Deep and frequent repetition of how poorly the Cessna 172 climbs in a
downdraft, mostly. Stories about how pilots panic in a downdraft and
stall the airplane. Backup stories from another CFI standing next to
him, who took time to recite the textbook methods for approching the
lee side of a ridge. Retorts for pretty much anything I could think
of; I spent 10 minutes not completing any sentences.

That kind of thing.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card