Powerflarm results @Seniors

On Friday, March 23, 2012 8:53:21 AM UTC-5, T8 wrote:
Crickets....

No other contest user reports?

T8

My impression of the rental powerflarms units was very much the same as TA reported.
First let me go on record as saying that I want very much for the powerflarm concept to work. I plan to install a "brick" in my glider - when available and when they work.
I had three near misses in thermals. The powerflarm alarm would sound and a second or two later the near miss would occur. The range was unacceptably poor...
Other issues I had with the portable units we The display was very hard to read in the cockpit with my sunglasses on. The warning "beeps" could have been louder so as to be heard above the radio and audio vario. The display of transponder equiped aircraft with no directional information did me very little good.
I look forward to trying powerflarm again, after they have had a chance to make it work better.

Don (DK)

On Mar 23, 7:30*am, wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2012 8:53:21 AM UTC-5, T8 wrote:
The powerflarm alarm would sound and a second or two later the near
miss would occur. The range was unacceptably poor...

Don (DK)

Don,

Were you using the "optional" small panel antenna? This is the flat
black, about 1" X 4" receive antenna that should be mounted vertically
and a couple of feet away from the PowerFlarm. This is intended to
increase the PF effective range and is included with the portable.

thanks,

bumper

On Friday, March 23, 2012 10:17:30 AM UTC-5, bumper wrote:
On Mar 23, 7:30*am, wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2012 8:53:21 AM UTC-5, T8 wrote:
The powerflarm alarm would sound and a second or two later the near
miss would occur. The range was unacceptably poor...

Don (DK)

Don,

Were you using the "optional" small panel antenna? This is the flat
black, about 1" X 4" receive antenna that should be mounted vertically
and a couple of feet away from the PowerFlarm. This is intended to
increase the PF effective range and is included with the portable.

thanks,

bumper

No. I was using the antennas mounted to the rear of the portable unit. It is not easy to find a spot a couple of feet away from the panel which will not have some kind of carbon fiber blockage of the antenna.

Don

On 3/23/2012 7:30 AM, wrote:
I had three near misses in thermals. The powerflarm alarm would sound
and a second or two later the near miss would occur. The range was
unacceptably poor...

Was this due to poor range; i.e., PowerFlarm did not receive the signal
from the other glider until it got too close to give a quicker warning?

I would guess that if you are thermalling with another glider that might
become a threat, that would be well within receiving range, and the
short warning time was due to poor threat determination, rather than
poor signal detection.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Friday, March 23, 2012 11:20:41 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 3/23/2012 7:30 AM, dfkroesch wrote:
I had three near misses in thermals. The powerflarm alarm would sound
and a second or two later the near miss would occur. The range was
unacceptably poor...

Was this due to poor range; i.e., PowerFlarm did not receive the signal
from the other glider until it got too close to give a quicker warning?

I would guess that if you are thermalling with another glider that might
become a threat, that would be well within receiving range, and the
short warning time was due to poor threat determination, rather than
poor signal detection.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

My three "near misses" were thermal entering problems. Twice the other guy - once my fault. I am aware that the other guys might be keeping score in a different way.....

From what I saw, the portable PowerFlarm range was clearly less than 1/4 mile - perhaps more like 1/8 mile. One or two seconds warning is not enough.

Don

At 17:29 23 March 2012, wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2012 11:20:41 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell
wrote:
On 3/23/2012 7:30 AM, dfkroesch wrote:
I had three near misses in thermals. The powerflarm
alarm would sound
and a second or two later the near miss would occur. The
range was
unacceptably poor...

Was this due to poor range; i.e., PowerFlarm did not receive
the signal
from the other glider until it got too close to give a quicker
warning?

I would guess that if you are thermalling with another glider
that might
become a threat, that would be well within receiving range,
and the
short warning time was due to poor threat determination,
rather than
poor signal detection.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to
".us" to
email me)

My three "near misses" were thermal entering problems. Twice
the other guy
- once my fault. I am aware that the other guys might be
keeping score in a
different way.....

From what I saw, the portable PowerFlarm range was clearly
less than 1/4
mile - perhaps more like 1/8 mile. One or two seconds warning
is not
enough.

Don


Don,
Did the FLARM unit you tested have a logger, and do you have
the logger file? If you have, I propose you run the range
analysis http://www.flarm.com/support/analyze/index_en.html
-kh

Don,
Did the FLARM unit you tested have a logger, and do you have
the logger file? If you have, I propose you run the range
analysis http://www.flarm.com/support/analyze/index_en.html
-kh

Kimmo

The Powerflarm that I was using was part of the US rental program. It shipped back right after the contest. I saw nothing in the manual about a logger.

Don

RN used a rental FLARM at the Seniors.

My experience was similar to DK and TA. I used the attached antennas
and mounted the unit on the top of the glare shield in the back seat
of the DG1000.

The effective range to see other FLARM gliders was something in the
neighborhood of 100 yards. Far too late to be useful.

We were told (correctly or incorrectly?) that the logger function had
not yet been activated on the rental units. No attempt was made to log
a flight based on this information.

I also strongly favor the "FLARM" concept of traffic alerting, and
appreciated the opportunity to try one using the rental program. My
plan was to buy a "brick" as soon as they become available, but from
what I have seen, my plans are definitely on hold.

It is somewhat frustrating that there seems to be no feedback on the
concerns being expressed other than from other pilots.

John

On 03/23/2012 2:27 PM, Don Kroesch (DK) wrote:

Don,
Did the FLARM unit you tested have a logger, and do you have
the logger file? If you have, I propose you run the range
analysis http://www.flarm.com/support/analyze/index_en.html
-kh

Kimmo

The Powerflarm that I was using was part of the US rental program. It shipped back right after the contest. I saw nothing in the manual about a logger.

Don



Unfortunately the Flight Data Recorders are not enabled in PowerFlarm as
of yet. There is an option to download a diagnostic file to an SD card
but this is not in IGC format, it is only a small file that contains
sample data that is not human readable - it is only useful to the folks
at PowerFlarm.


Luke

On Mar 23, 2:36*pm, Luke wrote:
On 03/23/2012 2:27 PM, Don Kroesch (DK) wrote:



Don,
Did the FLARM unit you tested have a logger, and do you have
the logger file? If you have, I propose you run the range
analysishttp://www.flarm.com/support/analyze/index_en.html
-kh

Kimmo



Interesting - the example on the link Kimmo sent shows that ~2 km is
the minimum range that should be achieved up to 200 km/h and shows
"normal" ranges out to ~6 km or so. In Uvalde I only ever saw one or
two other contacts at all and it was at much less than 1/2 km. My
unit went back to the factory for all the updates/repairs and so far,
in limited testing, that has improved to ~3/4 km. I will be bringing
it to Perry with hopes to see better. I'm sure they're working hard
on this, but the silence from the factory and North American sales is
deafening. I sincerely hope that my "Portable" isn't actually a
"brick" (i.e in the sense of being suitable for a doorstop or
paperweight...).

Derek