OT-Killing Pop-ups as a webmaster

Been doing this since 1997, I dont bother with that validate stuff, I dont think
its very accurate.
I just check pages with different browsers and if they load fine I am happy.


Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I have had good luck with Proxomitron for blocking pop-ups. If I had to
live with pop-ups all the time I would probably end up hardly using the net.
There are other good blockers out there also.

Please, please, PLEASE do *NOT* use his page as an example of how to code
HTML. It is a total mess internally. The "table" you are referring to is a
long string of erroneous closing tags for tables and table elements that
aren't open. It's lucky this page displays at all.

When you make a web page it should pass validation. Here's one to try:
http://www.w3schools.com/site/site_validate.asp . Pages that validate
properly stand a much better chance of working on different platforms (PC,
Mac, Linux) with different browsers (IE, NS, Opera, etc). Any sites I make,
or have made for me, must validate.

Peter

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:svEtb.3269$Ue4.933@fed1read01...
more OT..

Jay.. I am also learning HTML and MS FrontPage...

which "Theme/Style" did you use to create the left menu with the hover
button added... or was it some other java script you picked up and
inserted.. also there seems to be a rather large "table" at the bottom of
the main page.. you can see it in the source code.. but it does not
display
on the web..

BTW.. I did not get the "pop up", but I have most pop ups disabled via
Norton and MS IE. I tend to only get the MS Popups now..

Bill T
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:UdBtb.10159$Dw6.66595@attbi_s02...
I changed some of the metafiles (or "meta tags") in my website this
afternoon, emphasizing "hotels" more. I did this in an effort to get
search
engines to "see" our site more clearly, and (hopefully) move us up a few
notches in the "results".

Well, something worked. Within an hour I had acquired a "pop-up" ad
that
now shows up every time I open my website. (I assume you ALL see this,
right?) It appears to be "keying" on the "hotels" meta tag? (See it --
and
hopefully our site -- at www.AlexisParkInn.com )

As most of you know, I'm learning HTML on the fly here -- so excuse the
potentially dumb question, but: Is there anything I can do from the
webmaster's side to eliminate this kind of "pop-up parasite"?

Thanks in advance...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article , Jeff wrote:

Been doing this since 1997, I dont bother with that validate stuff, I
dont think
its very accurate.
I just check pages with different browsers and if they load fine I am
happy.

which means nothing wrt the HTML being correct.

You've been doing this since '97 and you still don't know what
valid HTML is?

--
Bob Noel

At 600,000+ unique hits a month and no complaints about page problems, must
be doing something right.

Bob Noel wrote:

rrect.

You've been doing this since '97 and you still don't know what
valid HTML is?

--
Bob Noel

Since '97?

To be "accurate" you have to both validate AND check with the entire series
of browsers (all types, all versions). Validation doesn't help you solve
browser bugs!

One thing you can to to ease the testing burden is to mine the logs for the
existing site (if any, or a similar audience if not) and see what browsers
(and versions) visitors are using. Then you can test what 99.9% of visitors
use and hope for the best for the rest.

On large projects there is a complete specification including the testing
plan. By the time I make the proposal I have a pretty good feel for what
the client wants and specify the testing plan accordingly. Some want as
cheap as possible and could deal with IE-only compatibility, others want the
99.9% or better level and are willing to pay for it.


"Jeff" wrote in message ...
Been doing this since 1997, I dont bother with that validate stuff, I dont
think
its very accurate.
I just check pages with different browsers and if they load fine I am
happy.


Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I have had good luck with Proxomitron for blocking pop-ups. If I had to
live with pop-ups all the time I would probably end up hardly using the
net.
There are other good blockers out there also.

Please, please, PLEASE do *NOT* use his page as an example of how to
code
HTML. It is a total mess internally. The "table" you are referring to
is a
long string of erroneous closing tags for tables and table elements that
aren't open. It's lucky this page displays at all.

When you make a web page it should pass validation. Here's one to try:
http://www.w3schools.com/site/site_validate.asp . Pages that validate
properly stand a much better chance of working on different platforms
(PC,
Mac, Linux) with different browsers (IE, NS, Opera, etc). Any sites I
make,
or have made for me, must validate.

Peter

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:svEtb.3269$Ue4.933@fed1read01...
more OT..

Jay.. I am also learning HTML and MS FrontPage...

which "Theme/Style" did you use to create the left menu with the hover
button added... or was it some other java script you picked up and
inserted.. also there seems to be a rather large "table" at the bottom
of
the main page.. you can see it in the source code.. but it does not
display
on the web..

BTW.. I did not get the "pop up", but I have most pop ups disabled via
Norton and MS IE. I tend to only get the MS Popups now..

Bill T
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:UdBtb.10159$Dw6.66595@attbi_s02...
I changed some of the metafiles (or "meta tags") in my website this
afternoon, emphasizing "hotels" more. I did this in an effort to
get
search
engines to "see" our site more clearly, and (hopefully) move us up a
few
notches in the "results".

Well, something worked. Within an hour I had acquired a "pop-up" ad
that
now shows up every time I open my website. (I assume you ALL see
this,
right?) It appears to be "keying" on the "hotels" meta tag? (See
it --
and
hopefully our site -- at www.AlexisParkInn.com )

As most of you know, I'm learning HTML on the fly here -- so excuse
the
potentially dumb question, but: Is there anything I can do from the
webmaster's side to eliminate this kind of "pop-up parasite"?

Thanks in advance...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay.. I am also learning HTML and MS FrontPage...

Well, Bill, despite Peter's (and others) elitist attitudes toward building a
web page, this ain't rocket science. Microsoft FrontPage -- for all of its
quirks -- is head and shoulders above any other web editor I've tried, for
ease of use.

Sure, you can go with Dreamweaver for more "power" -- if you've got a few
weeks of your life to devote to something as stupid as learning a new
program. Nowadays, with PCs as powerful as mainframes once were, there is
simply no reason for a program to be anything but naked-butt simple to use.
If it's NOT, that's indicative of poor programming design, IMHO.

If you're used to Microsoft Word -- and who isn't nowadays? -- FrontPage is
very familiar feeling. Much of the data is interchangeable, actually, and
you can share stuff from one program to the other. This really smoothes the
learning curve, and lets you start producing almost immediately.

which "Theme/Style" did you use to create the left menu with the hover
button added...

My menu style (on the left side of my page) is called "A graphical style
based on the Network theme" -- whatever THAT means. I picked it cuz
everyone says it looks nice! :-)

I write off this whole debate over HTML editors and technique as nothing
more than the "DOS vs Windows" debate, redux. Ten (or was it 15 now?)
years ago, I was the dinosaur, decrying the "stupid PC users who were using
the new 'Windows' as a crutch". I could be heard grumbling stuff like
"Why don't these idiots learn DOS, instead of forcing this stupid GUI down
our throats?"

Well, I learned that you've gotta keep moving with the technology. Dig
your heels in on something like this, and you'll end up being an expert in
Borland Paradox database design, trapped in a Microsoft Access world.

I know, cuz I AM one of *those*, and it sucks... :-(

And, by the way, FWIW I have deleted all that "table" HTML crap at the
bottom of the opening page. I have no idea what it was, or how it got
there -- nor do I care. It apparently had no effect on performance, which,
in the end, is all that matters.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:41:18 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

Jay.. I am also learning HTML and MS FrontPage...

Well, Bill, despite Peter's (and others) elitist attitudes toward building a

this has nothing to do with elitism. Your point of view is simple
ingnorance.

If you're used to Microsoft Word -- and who isn't nowadays? -- FrontPage is
very familiar feeling. Much of the data is interchangeable, actually, and
you can share stuff from one program to the other. This really smoothes the
learning curve, and lets you start producing almost immediately.

.... and produces another one producing more or less crap - and he is proud
of it.

which "Theme/Style" did you use to create the left menu with the hover
button added...

My menu style (on the left side of my page) is called "A graphical style
based on the Network theme" -- whatever THAT means. I picked it cuz
everyone says it looks nice! :-)

yeah. tried to use it without JS? :-)

I write off this whole debate over HTML editors and technique as nothing
more than the "DOS vs Windows" debate, redux. Ten (or was it 15 now?)

nope. there is a language with *rules* (you know, such things like an ADIZ
in aviation). Frontpage ignores most of them.

And, by the way, FWIW I have deleted all that "table" HTML crap at the
bottom of the opening page. I have no idea what it was, or how it got
there -- nor do I care.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this describes your attitude pretty good (at least regarding your website;
even when you was told why etc.)

It apparently had no effect on performance, which,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
in the end, is all that matters.

ah! and how will you know?

#m
--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

... and produces another one producing more or less crap - and he is proud
of it.

Well, Martin -- I speak with hundreds of hotel guests, most (like, 99.9999%)
of whom know nothing about HTML, or any of the so-called HTML "standards" to
which you (and others) refer.

The number one thing I hear about our website is that it is so much easier
to navigate and is actually chock-full of real information about the hotel
than most commercial sites. Too many sites are nothing but "fluff", and
cool graphics. I have tried to avoid that, in favor of stuff that potential
hotel guests might actually be interested in seeing.

I write off this whole debate over HTML editors and technique as nothing
more than the "DOS vs Windows" debate, redux. Ten (or was it 15 now?)

nope. there is a language with *rules* (you know, such things like an ADIZ
in aviation). Frontpage ignores most of them.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. You, like we former DOS-heads once did,
seem to view these "rules" as inviolate and unbreakable. This, my friend,
will be your ultimate downfall.

DOS had rules, too. Windows first worked within them, then ignored them and
made new ones.

Where is DOS now?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:42:41 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

... and produces another one producing more or less crap - and he is proud
of it.

Well, Martin -- I speak with hundreds of hotel guests, most (like, 99.9999%)
of whom know nothing about HTML, or any of the so-called HTML "standards" to
which you (and others) refer.


millions of flies can't be wrong! folks! eat ****!

The number one thing I hear about our website is that it is so much easier
to navigate and is actually chock-full of real information about the hotel
than most commercial sites. Too many sites are nothing but "fluff", and

compared to so many home-made websites from many (esp Americans) I come by
and that are really a pain in the ass yours is really rather informative.
But you are pointed to the correct ways of how things are done and you
simply ignore them.

nope. there is a language with *rules* (you know, such things like an ADIZ
in aviation). Frontpage ignores most of them.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. You, like we former DOS-heads once did,
seem to view these "rules" as inviolate and unbreakable. This, my friend,
will be your ultimate downfall.

HTML is standardised. You are referring to proprietaire products.

DOS had rules, too. Windows first worked within them, then ignored them and
made new ones.

Where is DOS now?

you compare one Microsoft crap with another Microsoft crap. Microsoft is
NOT standard (or compare Mac OS 8 with Mac OS 9, also non standard).
Hello!!!! This would be the same as when everyone would have Cessna, Piper
or Lycoming as reference in aviation (and this would be ridiculous).

HTML is standardised (as many other things are) and M$ is simply ignoring
them (at best). They find people like you finding that OK.

Once again: eat ****, because million of flies can't be wrong.

#m

--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:RVMtb.212725$HS4.1823321@attbi_s01...
... and produces another one producing more or less crap - and he is
proud
of it.

Well, Martin -- I speak with hundreds of hotel guests, most (like,
99.9999%)
of whom know nothing about HTML, or any of the so-called HTML "standards"
to
which you (and others) refer.

The number one thing I hear about our website is that it is so much easier
to navigate and is actually chock-full of real information about the hotel
than most commercial sites. Too many sites are nothing but "fluff", and
cool graphics. I have tried to avoid that, in favor of stuff that
potential
hotel guests might actually be interested in seeing.

I write off this whole debate over HTML editors and technique as
nothing
more than the "DOS vs Windows" debate, redux. Ten (or was it 15 now?)

nope. there is a language with *rules* (you know, such things like an
ADIZ
in aviation). Frontpage ignores most of them.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. You, like we former DOS-heads once did,
seem to view these "rules" as inviolate and unbreakable. This, my friend,
will be your ultimate downfall.

DOS had rules, too. Windows first worked within them, then ignored them
and
made new ones.

Where is DOS now?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

I couldn't agree more with your comments about HTML. Who gives a flying fig
what the internal code is....you're not selling internal code. Your website
looks great and the wife and I are interested in coming all the way out
to Iowa City to see the town and Inn based solely on the excellent sales
job of the website. We live in the L.A. area and believe me, visiting Iowa
City wasn't on our priority list for vacation sites. But the next time
we're
driving the U.S., which we do every couple of years for a vacation now
that the kids are out of college and on their own, we're going to give your
place a try....again, based only on the very informative, user friendly and
visually attractive web site. Hell, I hope the internal code structure
does suck!!! That gives me confidence that someday I could buy a copy of
Front Page and do a much more modest site just to hang our vacation pictures
on LOL!!

Best Regards,

Jim

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message


this has nothing to do with elitism. Your point of view is simple
ingnorance.

No. Jay's point of view is pragmatic. He's a small business owner trying
to advertise his hotel with a minimum of cost using the tools at his
disposal. If he wanted to hire a Siegelgale or one of us professional
developers, I'm sure he'd get validated HTML. As it is, his point of view
is quite correct: If it works, it's good enough. If he's not getting any
complaints from users about the site not loading, why bother fixing what
isn't broken?

The fact that users may not be able to view the site and will not complain
about doesn't detract from his desire to produce a web page using simple
tools.

this describes your attitude pretty good (at least regarding your
website; even when you was told why etc.)

And this demonstrates your elitist attitude that Jay was complaining about.
He's made it clear that he's not a developer and he doesn't need to be one.
If one of you professional, validating web developers care to donate your
time to advise him of proper tagging, I'm sure he'd be open to the idea...

It apparently had no effect on performance, which,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
in the end, is all that matters.

ah! and how will you know?

How do you know what testing he's done?

Damn. Give the boy a break. He's using low-end tools to minimize costs to
develop a low-profile brochure-ware site. It's not like he's building a
financial management system.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
_______________